Parallel 5ths & 8ths. Do you like them?

F

Feanor IV

New member
I know that parallel 5ths and 8ths are almost equal to a crime in classical theory, however I really like the way they sound and use them often in my songs. I keep them out whenever I do some classical-like arrangement, but I use them many other times. So, I just felt like I'd know...... how do you like them people?

Cheers,
Menelaos
 
I play parallel 5ths and 8ths (that would be an octave :) ) nearly every single time I pick up my guitar. Yer basic rock power chord is root, fifith, octave. Play two power chords in a row and there you have it!

A
 
Well, you're into power chord territory when you ask this in the context of popular music. My answer - same as yours actually, maybe I'd also say it's an easy sound for the listener.

I'm no classical music expert (and apologies for the musical oversimplistic heresy about to follow) from my memories of playing in an orchestra parallel anything was never heard, counterpoints or constantly changing chord shapes are all I remember.

[sorry - posted at the same time as Aaron]
 
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By parallel do you mean a melody? I think octaves can be cool over the right chords... And I don't mean power chords!
 
hi feanor,

the reason that parallel 5ths and octaves were no good in the baroque and classical styles is that they stick out like sore thumbs, and the movement and sound becomes predictable. i've been listening to some new bands recently and there's a lot of parallel chord movement going on, and it really does get tedious (to my ear). there's no need to become ridiculously complicated, though. breaking up the chords, adding unusual notes, using clear inversions can help a lot. but then again, if you're just playing chords on a guitar you're not going to be able to avoid parallel movement all the time. luckily, it's 2004, and it's ok :)
 
I like parallel 5th and 8th a lot and use them over and over. The vocal melodies can expand and get more room over them.
 
Parallel 5ths and 8ths are bad in classical theory, but evidently someone forgot to tell the southerners about that. A lot of the old southern harmonies in everything from blues to gospel are absolutely loaded with them, and they can sound really good if implemented correctly.
 
I think people misunderstand the rule about parallel 5th and octaves and act like it's a stupid rule because they take it out of the context of harmonizing distinct voices.

Two power chords, IMHO, do not really amount to parallel 5ths or octaves, because to the ear a power chord is perceived as one note. The 5th and the octave, when played with the root through distortion, create the illusion of one note an octave below the root of the powerchord. So basically instead of a root, 5th and octave you perceive it as one big beefy root. Add the bass playing the root on the bottom and it's no different. Just one big beefy note.

Secondly, as an arrangement technique, doubling a line on an octave is used all the time, even as far back as the baroque and classical days. That's not parallel octaves, in this sense. The point here is that if you have two voices in harmony, making a movement in parallel octaves weakens the harmony.

Parallel 5ths is the basis of some forms of music, particularly many styles of chant. It simply has a distinctive sound that doesn't fit with most other forms of western music. Some styles of music have used it very effectively (grunge comes to mind) to give an eerie, ominous vibe to the vocals, but for the most part if you're harmonizing a line, parallel 5ths does not sound as good as 3rds or 6ths.

There's no music theory that is universal. You study 18th century western harmony you're going to learn about 18th century western harmony. But I think more of these rules apply to modern pop/rock/etc than people want to believe.
 
Hehe... aww shucks aaron; though I don't think you want to wish for that when you're "one step away from stardom". That's about the point where my career bit the dust... I wish you better success!
 
Aaron Cheney said:
When I grow up I want to be just like lykwydchykyn.
Click to expand...
Truer words have never been spoken. I'm starting to think that lykwydchykyn is not only the most intelligent person alive, he also just might be the messiah.

Got that secret of cold fusion licked yet? Also, if you could explain women, I'd appreciate it.
 
lykwydchykyn said:
Secondly, as an arrangement technique, doubling a line on an octave is used all the time, even as far back as the baroque and classical days. That's not parallel octaves, in this sense. The point here is that if you have two voices in harmony, making a movement in parallel octaves weakens the harmony.

Parallel 5ths is the basis of some forms of music, particularly many styles of chant. It simply has a distinctive sound that doesn't fit with most other forms of western music. Some styles of music have used it very effectively (grunge comes to mind) to give an eerie, ominous vibe to the vocals, but for the most part if you're harmonizing a line, parallel 5ths does not sound as good as 3rds or 6ths.

There's no music theory that is universal. You study 18th century western harmony you're going to learn about 18th century western harmony. But I think more of these rules apply to modern pop/rock/etc than people want to believe.
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That's what I was kinda thinking. Parallel fifths, as it's been used here, isn't true to the definition. They can get boring in some contexts.
 
Well, just wanted to explain that I was definitely NOT refering to power chords, which are actually not what I use on my guitar, except if I use them as an "effect" to add volume or sth, when I use distortion. I hate it when bands arrange everything with only power chords, it's like they just can't sit down and find a chord to add depth!
 
Be Loveless said:
Whats a fifth?
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It's the one that says that no person shall be compelled to testify against themselves in a court of law.

Either that or it's a measure of whiskey.

I can't remember which...

A
 
I think, at this point and time, it would be okay to let go of 18th century part-writing rules. There were about 10 or so of them that were virtually irrefutable. One of them concerned using augmented 4ths, but with out them we wouldn't have "Mariah" from West Side Story. :cool:
 
TeyshaBlue said:
I think, at this point and time, it would be okay to let go of 18th century part-writing rules. There were about 10 or so of them that were virtually irrefutable. One of them concerned using augmented 4ths, but with out them we wouldn't have "Mariah" from West Side Story. :cool:
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I don't think anyone here says we should hang onto them. But, I think there is value in the historic research that's been done. We can't blow off history if we want to progress.

Oh yeah, the augmented 4th was once considered, "the devils tone", or something like that. It doesn't sound that good by itself. It works great in context.
 
Hey all, I'm new to the forum, but am pretty familiar with music theory. Yeah Fire,"Diabolus in Musica" was the Latin name for the #4th, and I couldn't agree more with you. Classical theory is an excellent foundation, voice-writing especially, but needn't be followed precisely. If we didn't bend or break the rules once in a while, music would grow stagnant after a few centuries.
And Chopin used parallel fifths but, as lykwydchykyn described, not as harmony, but rather to fill out or thicken melody lines.
 
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