panning mono tracks for stereo mixdown

No disrespect here, but I have always found it just works when you have a decent room to record in.

I use two overhead mics, set L/R about two feet apart centered above the snare and pointed outward from center. Kick and snare centered in mix.

I have not had a reason to pan them, other than full Left/Right, though I just may give that a try if the opportunity comes up.

I pan a drum kit as the overheads record them, including all the other snare/tom/hh/ride mics. When mixing and whether or not samples are involved depends on the project needs. But it all comes down to the room and the overhead mics in regard to drum space.

There is no right way to record anything. Only the end result matters. Hell, pan everything left if it sound good to ya! :)
 
And for reference drum sounds Ringo is on the money-I like the sound he gets on the hihat on the "Rooftop Sessions" (make sure you find the recording that has that up in the mix).....
 
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smg said:
When you HP @ 300 do you later boost/cut anywhere else? Just curious about what type of kick sound you're going after..did a lot of kick EQ'ng on last track( see post above) and wouldn't mind info re-specific Hz i.e.the batter sound around 2-4k....
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When I hi pass the overheads, it's because I am using them as cymbal mics and relying on the close mics for the sound of the drums. That is a heavy metal thing, especially for the faster stuff, where you can't have a lot of room sound muddying up the drums.
For kick, my starting point for a metal mix would be to suck out 800-900 Hz, add a ton of hi shelf at 8k and add 50 Hz to taste on the low end. Then I compress it with the compressor after the eq in the signal chain.

I do a similar thing with the toms, but the frequencies depend on the tuning of the drum.

Snare just really depends on the snare.
 
Hey Jay-
Thx for the specifics...while I have your attention (and might be able to reroute the thread back to it's original topic instead of the recent drum recording snare/kick positioning subtopic focus),if you have a chance could you take a look at my post from a couple of days back where I went into detail about the panning etc used on last recording and let me know what you think of my approach? Appreciate this...

BTW Thx again for your help in the earlier thread here about the Samson S Curve..been using it now for a few weeks w/good results + combining the approach you and others suggested (hands-on process of just checking different frequency bands and using my ear to make settings)w/using the specific frequency range boost/cut settings for a given instrument/drum kit component that I've found online and copied into a notebook I use as a reference source for EQ/compression settings across the board.....
 
Farview said:
When I hi pass the overheads, it's because I am using them as cymbal mics and relying on the close mics for the sound of the drums. That is a heavy metal thing, especially for the faster stuff, where you can't have a lot of room sound muddying up the drums.
For kick, my starting point for a metal mix would be to suck out 800-900 Hz, add a ton of hi shelf at 8k and add 50 Hz to taste on the low end. Then I compress it with the compressor after the eq in the signal chain.

I do a similar thing with the toms, but the frequencies depend on the tuning of the drum.

Snare just really depends on the snare.
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Well that all sounds very familiar. :)

For the heavy rock bands I pretty much replace the kick with samples tho. The softer country or acoustic stuff I like the natural kick and much more of the overheads and room mic.
 
Where do you usually put them?( keys etc)..using either L/R % #s or clock time i.e. 50 % R = 3 o'clock ...and if you put them on 2 mono tracks what kind of separation do you use?.

Also what about delay/pitch shifting if you do that....Been reading about this kind of approach to getting stereo spread and would be interested in people's views on using it...
 
smg said:
Where do you usually put them?( keys etc)..using either L/R % #s or clock time i.e. 50 % R = 3 o'clock ...and if you put them on 2 mono tracks what kind of separation do you use?.

Also what about delay/pitch shifting if you do that....Been reading about this kind of approach to getting stereo spread and would be interested in people's views on using it...
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I am just going to interject here with a 'who friggen knows'. response.

Years ago I would ask similar questions about 'what is the best way to', 'what would you use'?

I am still learning myself and always will be, but the answer is more complex than the question. Room acoustics, instrument, mics, interface, preamps, DAW, compression, eq, and simple things like lighting can have effect on your studio and mixes.

It just takes time to learn for 'yourself'. It is an answer that doesn't point you in a specific direction, but it is a vague answer for a vague question. Use your ears man.

Now, suggestions are great and by all means take those in, but in the end it is your decision. You make the call as to what you want for your songs. 'What sounds good to you?' is the question you should ask yourself.

Pitch shift, delay one side and pan that shit. Or not. It up to you.

:)
 
Here's where I'm coming from re-above post emphasis on "finding what works best" vs being over here and asking a lot of detailed questions about specifics from pros and people w/a lot of knowledge/experience-

I've been involved in music for many years but am relatively new to understanding + working w/all the aspects of the recording process ...having gotten a lot of info about music over the years so I know what's what at this point,I might be tempted to advise people wanting to learn about things to "find their own way" as well.... providing they had a good grasp of the fundamental underlying concepts involved....

At this point though I am still very much in the "learning about/figuring things out"phase....spend a lot of time studying things online...

Of course like everybody I make in the moment choices/decisions based on my own reactions to the results I get.....+ check myself w/the info I have about common practice techniques/parameters to see where I hear something working re-EQ/compression settings.for ex.

So being able to run things by people here and get a sense of what's what makes the difference between reading things online that I"sort of understand" without being able to get a clear explanation about and using this and other forums to see exactly what's involved w/a given concept (and where I'm thinking wrong about it in some cases)......
 
smg said:
Here's where I'm coming from re-above post emphasis on "finding what works best" vs being over here and asking a lot of detailed questions about specifics from pros and people w/a lot of knowledge/experience-

I've been involved in music for many years but am relatively new to understanding + working w/all the aspects of the recording process ...having gotten a lot of info about music over the years so I know what's what at this point,I might be tempted to advise people wanting to learn about things to "find their own way" as well.... providing they had a good grasp of the fundamental underlying concepts involved....

At this point though I am still very much in the "learning about/figuring things out"phase....spend a lot of time studying things online...

Of course like everybody I make in the moment choices/decisions based on my own reactions to the results I get.....+ check myself w/the info I have about common practice techniques/parameters to see where I hear something working re-EQ/compression settings.for ex.

So being able to run things by people here and get a sense of what's what makes the difference between reading things online that I"sort of understand" without being able to get a clear explanation about and using this and other forums to see exactly what's involved w/a given concept (and where I'm thinking wrong about it in some cases)......
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And herein lies the issue; Without hearing any given track of yours, it is almost-well-likely impossible to give a good judgment. There are just too many variables. I am not even going to waste your/my time to make up an analogy.

You can always 'run things by people' and members here and on other sites, but you must understand how vague it is to give a basic template.

Everything is different with genres, recording room and quality. One room may have ambience of it's own. Guitar tones are almost impossible to duplicate. A singers vocal is absolutely impossible to do the exact same treatment every time.

I am not trying to be a dick. I spent two decades trying to find the 'secret'. I am still looking, but it is the culmination of the process and experience that gets the answers as to what works. It never the same. Ever...
 
Basic understanding of how to use 'for Examples': compression, eq, phase issues, limiting of master buss, guitar sims, drum triggers, why you can or can't just delay a track to make a stereo effect are things that reading on the net is great for.

There is not one of them that will give you a perfect preset for any song. It just takes time working with the knowledge before you will find what works for you.
 
Definitely man + I appreciate you taking time to post about things-understand the point you're making + don't see this as a negative in any way...

As far as variables + different peoples' approach,unlike yourself and some of the other people who' ve posted on this thread,I 'm just a home studio musician recording tracks made w/a keyboard workstation/drum machine + a TASCAM DP-008ex...so things relating to live recording w/mics + room factors aren't involved.....

I went into this here in some earlier posts re-my focus being on seeing how good a result I can get using limited equipment/set-up....realizing that I'm thinking in terms of tracks recorded using state of the art equipment/situations/DAW/plug-ins etc....+ although for the time being I'm working w/my Tascam and a Samson S Curve(the DP-0008 has a built-in MBC etc for processing both initial tracks and mastering...)I live near the local library which has Audacity installed on their public computers so I can further tweak these tracks at some pont.....

I just started putting together the next track I'm going to be recording -this one will be a little more challenging in terms of mixing/panning etc as there are sections where,unlike the last track made just w/drums/clavinet(see previous post about this) bass/pad/keyboard melody + rhythmic comping patterns doubled w/the clavinet are involved along w/the drum track....

The keyboard workstation I'm using has a built-in 16 track sequencer,I have 7 tracks on it now that I was setting the levels/panning for today before going to start transferring things to the Tascam....even though I'll be recording the tracks individually into the unit I wanted to get a sense of how things will work together in terms of different levels etc in sections where things are more developed...

Not entirely sure about the approach I'll use to pan the different parts so they'll all work together to produce
a cohesive mix w/the elements of stereo width etc I'm going after instead of possible masking situations etc....think I'll start w/focusing on getting the bass line/kick to work together as they are playing interlocking rhythmic patterns...as was discussed here re-track before last where I had to tweak things a lot after adding the bass line to a bunch of completed tracks pre- mix...

I have found a lot of online info about how to range allocate the low end fortunately so I'll be able to refer to this when figuring out the right combination of sounds for each one....unlike the previous situation described in the post a few pages back about this...
 
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Robus said: "Some of the classic Doors recordings have the drum kit hard panned to one side in mono."

Hello Robus,

About those Doors recordings, do you think that was a creative choice so that Morrison's baritone voice would not get muddied, especially with Ray's left-handed bass lines? If so, why change it later? The drummer would sometimes use Latin rhythm patterns, so maybe that was desired to stand out from conventional R&R at the time via hard-panning in mono to one side.

I know on the L.A. Woman album a 2nd guitarist was used as well as a bassist were brought in, but I'm not sure of instrument placement in mix.

Importantly, were most of the Door's albums before L.A. Woman recorded with the drums panned to one side in mono?

If only occasionally, do you recall the songs? How about the overall positioning of the other instruments in those songs?

I only heard the Doors in the 90's on a friend's stereo boom box: The separation with the speakers so close didn't allow for me to notice such things--then, too, I would not have been listening for this at that time.

I anticipate working with a baritone and organist on some R & B practice tracks, so I was looking for insight on this. I'll likely be using a Beat Buddy drum "machine," which means unless I "punch in" fills on my Tascam 24 track everything of the kit will be heard together. Would you think this would be too much for placing in center . . . instead maybe mono placement off to one side might be an option such as with those Doors' songs?

I hope this might benefit smg in some way with his inquiry, too.

Thanks, JeffF.
 
Hello alterman,

If you have time, a follow up on hard panning (the drum kit) to one side would be most welcomed. Why would you think this was done on the songs you mentioned? Was there something particular about those songs that lent themselves to that approach?

Thanks, JeffF.
 
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Hello Robus,

A lot of Doors live stuff is . . . I sure I can find some recordings---probably stuck in my friend's boom box. (I'll have to do that rewind the cassette tape with a pencil thing.)

I was hoping you might have an educated guess on why they chose to do this? Your thoughts, please? If its been awhile since you heard those recordings and are not in a position to reasonably comment, I'll understand.

Thanks, JeffF.
 
Not familiar w/the Beat Buddy but if it allows you record the indiv drum kit components separately(re-"punching in fills") I'd go that route w/the 24 track...then you can mess w/the panning for the kit if you want-

Assuming you are going to be recording the project instead of also adding another instrument yourself to the organ/baritone mix you might want to focus on making sure you have a good balance frequency-wise by having the highs on the kit up in the mix re-bass pedals/low end on org and bari range...i.e.cymbals/hihat/snare tuning if you can adjust that on the BB....
 
I, JeffF, deleted this reply because I failed to properly recheck technical literature and instead replied erringly from memory.

If anyone had previous read earlier content (as I edited it more than once), please refer to reply #86 that corrects those points, giving the manual page number for reference so that you may verify corrections.

I will seek to properly double-check technical points in the future.

Respectfully and with apology to each member, especially smg--JeffF.
 
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Not completely sure I understand the above but will try to reply based on what I think is being referred to-

Any posts of mine on this thread relate to processes using the Tascam....Audacity is available as I posted yesterday but will only be used to mess w/mastered material or mixes to be mastered ...all the tracking processes I'm doing w/the DP-008ex ,as well as the mixdown/mastering at present....

Bouncing as I was asking about it relates to the track bouncing on the unit ...I was interested in getting feedback about how the mix on a pair of bounce destination tracks compares w/the mix on the stereo master track made from the same tracks used to make the bounce ...(.please refer to my post in reply to Miroslav about 2/3 pages back for more info about how the unit works...)

My unit has a un/redo function that I have been using when needed ...you can go back to a prev operation and restore things to then...very useful especially when getting used to how things work and making accidental erasures of recorded tracks...


I could of course use the Audacity on the computers at the library a block from my place with every track I make to finish the mix etc but given my approach/focus right now I prefer to do things here in the little studio I have,then in a few months I'll go over there w/a bunch of completed material and see what I want to do additionally ( if anything) to them....this could change if I find out about things I could do w/Audacity that would supersede the approach I have now w/my equipment...but to be honest I have a bunch of stuff I'm focusing on w/my current approach and things I can get into down the road I have yet to start working with so I'm good for now....

Is your Tascam 24 track an older analog model?Assuming this is the case re-things you describe...
 
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