Pan extreme right, but doesn't seem panned as much as other recordings

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pure.fusion

New member
Hi all, I'm mixing a song at the moment and I have vocal parts that get's panned to the extreme right and left.

The reason I'm posting is that I notice in other professionally recorded songs that panned voices sould like they are at the extreme "ends" of the panning range but when I try to recreate this by panning 100% left or right, the outcome is no where near the same - ie, doesn't sound panned as much and I can't go any greater than 100%. From this I assumed that it was the effects still throwing sound to the other side....I dunno.

All of the vocal tracks are directed group faders, and the groups have sends to a room effect and a reverb effect.

So i notice that when I pan to the right, you can hear the room and reverb spread over the the left. ... like it is suppose to.

So, If I wanted the sound *and it's effects* to appear to originate from the RHS, how would I do this?

Comments? Solutions?

Cheers,
FM
 
Yeah...it sounds like your FX are adding to the L/R image.

If you remove the FX and pan hard to one side, does it go as far as you think it should?

AFA making both FX and dry all to one side....you would want to use a mono FX that can be panned to one side same as dry.
 
One way to find out if this is really happening is to solo those vocals, and use your ears to hear if there's anything coming out of the other side, and also use your eyes to see if the left side meter is registering anything.
 
miroslav said:
Yeah...it sounds like your FX are adding to the L/R image.

If you remove the FX and pan hard to one side, does it go as far as you think it should?

AFA making both FX and dry all to one side....you would want to use a mono FX that can be panned to one side same as dry.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that too. If you're using a pre-fader send effect(s) on the vocals, they won't pan with the dry signal. They'll still come out of both sides even if the vocals are panned all the way to the right.
 
Thanks for the replys.

I'm trying to grasp, but I'm failing.

I have a four part harmony. 4 tracks group to 1 fader (group) which has the (stereo) reverb effects. I want to pan two of the track to hard (L) and hard (R) but (as suggested) have the effects pan aswell.

I'll *have* to change this structure then yeah? Can someone help with this detail?

Cheers,
FM
 
If the reverb is receiving from the Group fader, I don't think you can do what you want. There might be a better and or/easier way, but the only thing I can think of is to use your reverb as an insert on each channel and it will follow the individual track's panning. But that means you have to use for instances of your reverb. There's got to be a better way, but I can't get my head 100% around what you're trying to do, so I'm probably not much help. Interested to see if other can help.


Wait, I just checked in REAPER (I don't know what DAW you're using). You don't have to use 4 instances of your reverb and you don't have to use the reverb as an insert. You can use one reverb as a send, but you have to assign reverb to each vocal track separately. But on each channel's send, you can adjust the panning of the reverb. So, you can pan the reverb on each channel to match the panning of the actual channel using just one reverb.
 
pure.fusion said:
Thanks for the replys.

I'm trying to grasp, but I'm failing.

I have a four part harmony. 4 tracks group to 1 fader (group) which has the (stereo) reverb effects. I want to pan two of the track to hard (L) and hard (R) but (as suggested) have the effects pan aswell.

I'll *have* to change this structure then yeah? Can someone help with this detail?

Cheers,
FM
Click to expand...

Group them two and two. Two vocal tracks to one group with it's own reverb, pan it hard to one side. Two vocal tracks to another group with it's own reverb, pan it hard the other way. Done.
 
Cheers guys.

Ahhh, If I only had 4 vocal tracks. Currently I have over 20 vocal tracks which have a whole bunch of stuff done to them. That's not to say that I have over 20 vocal parts playing at the same time (8 or 9 maximum), I just use extra tracks so I can group the tracks in some sort of order.

I think I'm rapidly approaching a question like, "how many tracks does it take to cause Cubase start to screw up".

I'll have a look into RAMI's thing and failing that I'll do the GregL thing and just create more tracks that are specific to anything I want to pan.

Cheers.

Was it a mistake to create a Stereo "group" track to send all my mono vocals to?

FM
 
If you really feel the need to pan the verbs to one side....that's your choice, but honestly, I don't think it's something to go nuts over.

I've panned B. vocals hard left and right....but I never tried to keep each vocal's reverb vocal panned hard to one side with the vocal. I always use a stereo verb, and I let that spread L/R naturally , regardless of where I pan the tracks.
I think panning something like reverb to one spot in the image is going to be weird or insignificant...so maybe you're doing a lot more work there than needed with the FX.

Think of it in a natural setting....you have two people in a room, one at each side....but the ambiance of the room is everywhere, and never localized relative to the source. It might be stronger to one side than then other...but it's never ALL on one side and dry on the other.
 
miroslav said:
If you really feel the need to pan the verbs to one side....that's your choice, but honestly, I don't think it's something to go nuts over.

I've panned B. vocals hard left and right....but I never tried to keep each vocal's reverb vocal panned hard to one side with the vocal. I always use a stereo verb, and I let that spread L/R naturally , regardless of where I pan the tracks.
I think panning something like reverb to one spot in the image is going to be weird or insignificant...so maybe you're doing a lot more work there than needed with the FX.

Think of it in a natural setting....you have two people in a room, one at each side....but the ambiance of the room is everywhere, and never localized relative to the source. It might be stronger to one side than then other...but it's never ALL on one side and dry on the other.
Click to expand...

Yep, cool. I dig the room thing.

If anything, it just comes from a technical curiosity of why the 'Music on the commercial CD' seems like it's panned way way into your right ear and how I can't get a sound to the same position by panning my track 100% right.

It's certainly not vital, but it might lead me towards learning something :)

FM
 
You can also do what RAMI said about panning a send in Cuabse as well. It has to be done by clicking the "e" button on a channel (in this case each individual vox track, not the group). This will open the window that holds cubase's stock EQ, and to the right of that, you can change the settings to show the send pan by right clicking in an empty space.

I agree that it probably doesn't need to be done with vocals like this, but there are uses for panning a reverb opposite a hard panned track. For example, I do it sometimes with a guitar that is only in one side for an intro maybe, or in a bridge. I also messed with making two mono delays for dbl tracked rhythm guitars and panning opposite of the tracks. It can really give a nice ambiance without getting the washy effect of reverb. Nice short delay times of course. So, It does have it's uses.
 
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