Overheads

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thebarnstudio

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So i'm looking into getting some new overheads... as my current ones are the weak link in my mic collection ( audix f15's).

I'm looking into either Neumann KM184's or AKG 414B's. I haven't heard either mics. I record modern radio style rock/pop music. I wish I could pick up another u87 used somewhere to have a stereo pair but I doubt I'll swing that.

A cheaper route could be AKG 451's/ Shure SM81's. How would these stack up against a the KM184/414B. I would also like to use these mics for acoustic instruments along with my u87.

Or should I keep my audix f15's and get an API lunchbox.
 
i've used all of those mics...and all of them on OH's except the KM184

i heard the 451's for the 1st time on OH's just last week, and i really liked the way they sounded. they're pretty bright, but in a good/flattering sort of way. i'd used them on hi-hats before and wasn't much of a fan, but they make for pretty sweet OH mics.

the 414's i've used several times on OH's, and i'm not really a fan. i don't know what it is, but they just have a weird midrange quality that i'm not a huge fan of.

i own a pair of SM81's, which are the go-to mics for OH's in my collection. they're very natural sounding to me, at least compared to my NT5's, which is why i usually reach for them 1st.

the only time i've personally used a KM184 was on some acoustic guitar stuff...i helped someone track a tune that had 3 different guitar parts layered on each other, and we used a diff. mic for each part. 1 track was a 451, another a U87, and the third was the 184. the 184 sounded shrill and harsh compared to the others...but OTOH, i've heard tracks that came from the same room with the 184's on a classical guitar, and they were awesome. this mic just flat-out has a shitload of high-end response, which again, will be great for some stuff, crap for others.

i also recently used a pair of U87's for OH's, and they rocked - as U87's should.
 
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Ironklads descriptions seemed pretty accurate to me. I have used all of the mics listed on overheads. The KM184's are definately very extended in the HF area. I never cared for them on a drum kit, but on certain acoustics, especially classical acoustics that have a warm and definately non harsh sound to them, the KM184's bring a nice sparkle. I have used sm81's hundreds of times on overheads, and they always do just fine. For years my choice of overhead mics was the AKG 451's or the 414's. The 451's had a more honest sound with just a little extra top end, but that top end never seemed to get in the way like it did on the KM184's. If you manage to get an older set of KM84's though its a whole different ballgame. Like many of the mics in the Neumann line there is a magic that is there on the older ones that just does not seem to have translated to the newer ones. Even with the U87's, I actually prefer the AKG 414's on overheads. The newer Ai version of the U87 sounds quite a bit different than the older U87 and U87i's. It still sounds good, but it loses some of the creamy mid range that people seem to love on the Neumanns and can definately get a little too bright pretty quickly, but still not quite harsh like the KM184's tend to do on a lot of sources. The AKG 414's do have a bit of a midrange forwardness to them on overheads, but I personally like that. It helps to tame bright cymbals a little and to bring the rest of the kit forward a bit.

Recently I sold both my 414's and my 451's. I recently added Peluso and Red microphones to my line list because of how much I liked them compared to what I was using. The Peleuso CEMC6 SD condensors sound great to me. They actually seem very similar to the 451's, but they have a more solid feeling midrange which I like better on Overheads and on acoustics. They also turned out to be a little less expensive. I have been using the Red Type B body with the cheaper R8 capsules when I want the more aggressive overhead sound where I would have used the 414's. Once again, it turned out to be very similar in sound, but they seemed to have a better "dimension" to them. I tried the nicer R7 capsule, but on overheads I actually prefer the sound of the more affordable R8 capsule. On acoustic, electric and vocals though I do like the R7 better. The real champ on overheads though (and many other sources as well) was the Peluso 2247. On overheads they sound huge. The imaging is amazing and the sound just pushes through but never seems to require much if any processing. Moving the mics around also seem to provide better variance in sound. Add to that the 9 patterns and they become pretty darned flexible. My only complaint with the 2247's on overheads as compared to the 414 is that the 2247's are larger and require more care when setting them up on stands because they are so much heavier. In the end though, a 2247 costs only about 1/3 more than a 414 but on many sources it just seems to be in a different league. There is a part of me that wishes that I had kept at least one 414 though because I still have not found a mic that I like as well on bottom snare. Now if I could just get one more Royer R121 for overheads I think I will have my overhead cabinet stocked as well as I may ever need it:D
 
I cannot add anything else to this post that would not be redundant. I will say, all of the mics mentioned will do the job and do it well. The better your placement skills and the quality of the drumkit and its tuning, the better the sound. Also, as a budget idea, the SM81's are by far the best bang-for-the-buck ..........I have used all of these mics in many settings on many instruments and I own older U87's and they are, by far, the better sounding mics. I've used the KM84's extensively and there is something intangible about the older Neumanns........I will also say this...the BEST overheads I have ever experienced, and this is only my ear hearing what I like, was a pair of the Royers. Also the stereo Royer was OUTSTANDING on a pop/lite rock take with a small compact kit. Outstanding. Very organic if thats even a term to describe sound..................

An aside to xstatic...Though maybe not in the same league (but maybe it is!) I did some drum tracks the other night and for the first time I used an Audix D1 for the under snare mic. I was really pleased. Something in the voicing made it just right. The style was rock and the snare is a basic Tama metal 6 1/2" with a wide snare and a Genera Dry head. And great rejection of the other kit pieces. Just thought you'd like to know.
 
Thanks Cavedog. I will have to try the D1. I have never been a big fan of the D series except tfor the D6 and D4. I do have a few D1's kicking around the shop though and I will give it a try. I have no doubt though that good or bad it will be very different than slamming a 414 up under there:) On another note, have you tried the Peluso SD mics in place of the sm81's? I have a bunch of both sm81's and CEMC6's and since I got the Peluso's, the sm81's have been stuck in their old blue plastic cases. A stereo matched pair of the Peluso's with a case, windscreen, shockmount and standard clip is about the same price as a pair of sm81's, maybe a little bit more. I do plan on gettting one more Royer (a mic I could never do without on guitar cabs) or maybe just a pair of the Peluso ribbons since that would be about the same as one R121. Plus, I like the R121 as a room mic as well.
 
Not as far as I can tell, and sonically they sure don't sound like any of the chinese mics I have tried (not that all of them are that bad).
 
I had 184's for OH's and didn't like them a whole lot. Too harsh on cymbals. Gefell 300's a re much smoother sounding. I get a pretty killer OH sound through a pair of Gefell UM92's into a Fearn VT-2. Of course, it helps to have a killer sounding room....... :D
 
thebarnstudio said:
So i'm looking into getting some new overheads... as my current ones are the weak link in my mic collection ( audix f15's).

I'm looking into either Neumann KM184's or AKG 414B's. I haven't heard either mics. I record modern radio style rock/pop music. I wish I could pick up another u87 used somewhere to have a stereo pair but I doubt I'll swing that.

A cheaper route could be AKG 451's/ Shure SM81's. How would these stack up against a the KM184/414B. I would also like to use these mics for acoustic instruments along with my u87.

Or should I keep my audix f15's and get an API lunchbox.
Click to expand...

You should add the Beyer MC930's to the list of potential mics.

They get a lot of hype on GS, generally regarded as nicer than KM184's. I have a pair, but i cannot compare them directly to KM184's or 414's since I don't have any. I can say the Beyers have amazing detail compared to my Oktava MC012's. The Oktavas can be flattering when you need to tame harshness. The Beyers are brighter, but the bump is higher up than other mics - around 15khz. Gives it air without being harsh.
 
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