Does anyone know if you have to flip the phase on a single overhead mic for a drum kit? In the coming weeks I aim to record a demo with my band , using a Tascam 58 and very basic gear. The drums I will be recording using a couple of mics on the kick, and have the snare and Tom's close mic'd . I aim to get most of the sound of the kit using an SM57 on the overhead. I just wondered if the 57 would need to have the phase flipped. Thanks
Overhead mics
- Thread starter frosty55
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VomitHatSteve
Hat STYLE. Not contents.
I believe the general rule is something like: if the two mikes are twice as far from the source as each other (or more) then phase shouldn't be an issue
I record drums often, often several times a week.
The term "Phase" is a term that is a "polarity relationship" between 2 or more audio signals. (in this case anyways)
There is no way to know what that is right out of the gate because of how quickly the audio signal flips from positive to negative.
You can try to out guess it, but you are just better off setting up your mics and recording a dry run and then look at the waveforms on your computer (assuming you are going digital) and see if they are horribly out of phase. (actually... listening is the fastest course to take)
For instance... you can assume the microphone on the snare top and tom tops are going to first start there sound going downward (away from the microphone) but unless all the mics are EXACTLY the same distance from their respective microphones your polarity at any point of the time line may have a positive signal being mixed with a negative one...
I could go on forever with the experiments I have done and put you into a coma, but about the only (mostly) sure thing I can say is if you are miking the top and bottom of the same drum (like a snare) and the mics are perpendicular to the drum head surfaces, generally the polarity of one of the mics will need to be switched. (some times I found if the mics were pointing across the face of the drum... the polarity was the same)
My routine is to start with the overheads as the baseline.
Then add Kick... and listen to the fullness of the low end to decide if the kick needs to be flipped. (I then mute the Kick)
Then I try the top of snare and flip the polarity... it will be very obvious as to which works and doesn't.
Then solo the snare top and start with reversing the snare bottom mic (if you use one) listening to them soloed as you flip the bottom polarity.
I then mute all but the overheads and try adding the toms one by one.
Eventually if you settle on a certain microphone set up you like and use often, (I cut measuring lengths of string I use to set Mic relationships from the snare, toms etc) you pretty much know how to pre set up your phase relations ship ahead of time.
I just make drum templates for each different set up I generally do so I have a pretty quick start up... but at some point I STILL listen though all the relationships because relatively small moves of mic placement can affect the relationships.
I hope that makes some sense.
It really just boils down to what sounds the best at that time.
It is easy to get overly wrapped around the axel on this when you have a ton of mics catching some audio that is also being picked up elsewhere.
That is why sometimes a minimalist approach to miking can get you a good sound faster than 16 mics can... you just don't have as much individual drum volume control at mix down.
The term "Phase" is a term that is a "polarity relationship" between 2 or more audio signals. (in this case anyways)
There is no way to know what that is right out of the gate because of how quickly the audio signal flips from positive to negative.
You can try to out guess it, but you are just better off setting up your mics and recording a dry run and then look at the waveforms on your computer (assuming you are going digital) and see if they are horribly out of phase. (actually... listening is the fastest course to take)
For instance... you can assume the microphone on the snare top and tom tops are going to first start there sound going downward (away from the microphone) but unless all the mics are EXACTLY the same distance from their respective microphones your polarity at any point of the time line may have a positive signal being mixed with a negative one...
I could go on forever with the experiments I have done and put you into a coma, but about the only (mostly) sure thing I can say is if you are miking the top and bottom of the same drum (like a snare) and the mics are perpendicular to the drum head surfaces, generally the polarity of one of the mics will need to be switched. (some times I found if the mics were pointing across the face of the drum... the polarity was the same)
My routine is to start with the overheads as the baseline.
Then add Kick... and listen to the fullness of the low end to decide if the kick needs to be flipped. (I then mute the Kick)
Then I try the top of snare and flip the polarity... it will be very obvious as to which works and doesn't.
Then solo the snare top and start with reversing the snare bottom mic (if you use one) listening to them soloed as you flip the bottom polarity.
I then mute all but the overheads and try adding the toms one by one.
Eventually if you settle on a certain microphone set up you like and use often, (I cut measuring lengths of string I use to set Mic relationships from the snare, toms etc) you pretty much know how to pre set up your phase relations ship ahead of time.
I just make drum templates for each different set up I generally do so I have a pretty quick start up... but at some point I STILL listen though all the relationships because relatively small moves of mic placement can affect the relationships.
I hope that makes some sense.
It really just boils down to what sounds the best at that time.
It is easy to get overly wrapped around the axel on this when you have a ton of mics catching some audio that is also being picked up elsewhere.
That is why sometimes a minimalist approach to miking can get you a good sound faster than 16 mics can... you just don't have as much individual drum volume control at mix down.
Last edited:
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
I would most likely leave the overhead as it is and flip other things to match, if listening suggested that inverting was needed.