Overhead 101

G

Goreliscious

New member
Hello all, this is my first post...please help!
I'm doing some DIY drum recording soon and I desperately need an idiots guide to overheads! I don't what the purpose of them are - are they cymbal mics or are they kit mics or are they whatever you want them to be? And I'd ideally like to understand the principles of XY, Recorderman and spaced pair...

I've tried the Recorderman technique but everytime I do it, the right overhead placement ends up being band next to my right ear?! I don't know how high a spaced pair should be and how far off my cymbals they should be? I don't know how far apart a spaced pair should be...etc etc etc...you get the jist, major n00b here.

I suppose the last thing to say is that I'll be micing each drum individually but I was attracted to the Recorderman method because I've heard so many people say it's great for lots of situations and I liked the idea of having a set of dimentions to work from - but I'm obviously screwing up somehow.

If anyone can help, please lay off heavy physics and techno jargon, you'll be wasting your breath, I just don't have the background knowledge to understand it.
 
IT all depends firstly on what type of drum sound you are after. Do you want a tight heavy metal sound or a big rock sound or a loose jazz sound etc etc.
 
There's nothing wrong with combining techniques. You can set up your overheads in "Recorderman", "Glyn Johns", "XY", "Spaced Pair", etc....and also use close mics on your drums. At the least, you probably need 4 mics (overheads, snare and kik).

With overheads, they can't be "almost" the same distance from your snare. You need a measuring tape to make sure they're the EXACT same distance from your snare.

As for your question about what overheads should be...There's always one or 2 people that will say "it depends" or "use them as cymbal mics". But, I'm of the strong opinion that overheads should capture the whole kit. In fact, your drum sound should be about 80% "there" with 2 overheads and a kik drum. Next thing to mic is your snare. I personally use just those 4 mics, but there's nothing wrong with micing everything.

If you haven't yet, read this: https://homerecording.com/bbs/equip...regs-general-guide-rock-drums-newbies-273077/ It's a 5 page long thread, but you really only need to read the first post by Greg.
 
RAMI said:
As for your question about what overheads should be...There's always one or 2 people that will say "it depends" or "use them as cymbal mics". But, I'm of the strong opinion that overheads should capture the whole kit. In fact, your drum sound should be about 80% "there" with 2 overheads and a kik drum. Next thing to mic is your snare. I personally use just those 4 mics, but there's nothing wrong with micing everything.
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Yep, same here. This is good advice to follow!
 
RAMI said:
...I'm of the strong opinion that overheads should capture the whole kit. In fact, your drum sound should be about 80% "there" with 2 overheads and a kik drum. Next thing to mic is your snare. I personally use just those 4 mics...
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Ditto.

My own preferred setup, 4 mics total, with my OH mics being a Mid/Side stereo pair. The OH mics are only about 7' off the floor, right above the drummer's knees, centered on the line between the Kick and Snare, which lets me place them at about 11:00 and 1:00 respectively in the mix, then I just pan/line up the Kick and Snare spot mics to match the position of the stereo pair. the OH mics pick up the whole kit and provide most of the drum sound...with the two spot mics added to taste to help punch up the Kick and Snare tone.
 
Thanks for the replies thus far. Ultimately I'm recording my whole band death metal//sludge band and because of our vibe and it being a very DIY recording I'm gunna use old Obituary/Bolt Thrower albums as a production guide - it won't let post a youtube link cos i'm a newbie.

Cheers for the link, I'll read that later when I get a moment. Do the 2 overheads have to exactly the same distance from the snare in every type of overhead setup, or just the Recorderman method? I'll definitely be micing toms and snare too, I love thick sounding toms!

Excuse the quality of the picture but I've uploaded a picture of my kit setup - where would you suggest placing the overheads? I don't want the hi-hats to overwhelm the left overhead so I might physically move them a bit further to the left cos I know they'll come up in the snare mic anyway.

Cheers again
KIT.jpg
 
I do like a hybrid spaced-pair/recorderman thing. Probably more like spaced-pair, but I don't follow the 3:1 rule. I draw an imaginary line through the center of the snare and kick and think of that as center. So, with both mics being equidistant from the snare, and if you imagine me sitting on the face of a clock, the left OH mic is at about 11:00 and the right OH is at about 2:00. The way I set my kit up, the L OH is higher than the right, but I don't get any phase problems because they're still the same distance from the snare. I like my mics about 40 inches from the snare, but you'll have to decide for yourself. I don't worry about the kick in the overheads too much because it's mostly close-mic.
 
Greg_L said:
...the left OH mic is at about 11:00 and the right OH is at about 2:00. The way I set my kit up, the L OH is higher than the right, but I don't get any phase problems because they're still the same distance from the snare.
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I can see how you get no phase problems with the snare. But with that setup, how do you avoid phase problems in the cymbals? Or maybe the question is: How far apart are your OH mics? Just curious.
 
TripleM said:
I can see how you get no phase problems with the snare. But with that setup, how do you avoid phase problems in the cymbals? Or maybe the question is: How far apart are your OH mics? Just curious.
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Maybe like 4-5 feet apart.

I don't worry about phase problems with the cymbals. I don't think there is anything to worry about with them, or know how you even would address it. Cymbals are loud and fill the room with sound. You can't isolate them. Both mics are naturally gonna pick up a cymbal crash, and it's proximity to either mic is gonna determine it's place in the stereo field. A cymbal crash being "out of phase" is what makes it seem like it's to the left or right. My hats are to my left, my ride is to the right, everything else falls inbetween, and it sounds that way on recordings. If the overheads are set up correctly, they'll give you an accurate representation of the kit.
 
I think I'm gunna drop my overheads in a bucket of water at this rate...

I don't see how it's possible to avoid phasing with a spaced pair if the 2 overheads have to be at precise distances apart from all 5 cymbals?! I get it when there's just one sound source - i.e a solo guitar. I'm also struggling with XY because my right mic won't physically reach the centre of my snare!

I'm concentrating on the spaced pair and XY setups becuase judging from comparrisons I've watched/listened to, those two methods seem to give the biggest/widest sound.
 
Goreliscious said:
I think I'm gunna drop my overheads in a bucket of water at this rate...

I don't see how it's possible to avoid phasing with a spaced pair if the 2 overheads have to be at precise distances apart from all 5 cymbals?! .
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Lol. They don't. That's not even possible. Just worry about the distance from each OH to the center of the snare batter head. Both OH's should be the same distance if you want the snare to sound proper and centered. Tweak them so they're both equidistant from the snare. Don't worry about the distance to the cymbals. Just make sure the OH's are above the cymbals. If you can, try to get the kick centered too, but it's not quite as important. Just focus on the snare.
 
Another thing I don't get...I'm mixing XY and spaced pair together here but...

If you excuse my lame drawing in Paint (I haven't included cymbals, just drums), I've drawn on the centre line through my bass drum and snare - where I've put the red circles/dots is where I see LEFT and RIGHT of the centre line being, but where I've put the red crosses is where left and right in real life so to speak. Which one is right for recording?SPACED.JPG
 
Cheers for the help dude! One last question, (I hope!), with another one of my special visual aids...

You said your OH mics aren't the same height even though they're the same distance from the snare - surely that means the snare isn't in the centre and is more audiable in one mic?

If you look at my doodle the red dots are the 2 OH mics, both 50 cm away, but the left mic is actually closer to the snare in terms of horizontal distance. So if you recorded the snare with the mics at these positions, then panned the left mic to the left and the right mic to the right, the snare would be dominant in the left speaker making it off centre, no?

To make sure the snare is truely centre, haven't you got to make sure the 2 OH mics are equal distances away from the snare in both horizontal and vertical distances?50.JPG
 
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