Original song - "Just Gettin' By"

[dobro]

OK, cool, thanks man....I let Rami hear this a few days ago, & he suggested it then, but I'm a lazy fucker so I didn't do anything about it.....


Well dude, that's cool & all, I appreciate everything everybody's said/suggested/etc, but how to you suggest I make my drums tighter???? I'm not Rami or Greg you know......

I know, I know. I think I'm gonna go and record something like I said before. You can tear it apart when I post it.

 

[RFR]

I like it.....but......

On both versions what bothers me is the intro guitar disappears when the other guitars kick in. sitting a bit higher in the mix with some eq to distinguish it might help.
Mind you I only listened on an LCD screen with built in speakers, but that jumped out. The intro is so very important because that is what engages the listener to go the whole distance.
Other than that small quirk, I dug it.

 

[Tadpui]

Listening to mix #2...

I think that the hihat could come up, mainly in the intro. Or maybe the overheads in general could come up, because the ride disappears into the mix as well.

Holy crap, excellent guitar tones. Rhythm and lead both sound fantastic. Vocals sound good to me as well, I think they sit right in there. No frills on the vocals, I like it.

Bass is hard to judge in my room, but I think it sounds very good. Kick and bass each have their own territory. Bass sounds a little growly/boomy but I can hear it the whole way through which is more than I can say for my own mixes in this room.

Great job man, nice song to boot. It's definitely a little Southern rock, a little late 80s Hollywood. Good structure and it moves along nicely.

 

[minerman]

I know, I know. I think I'm gonna go and record something like I said before. You can tear it apart when I post it.

I was being serious dude....I need help with my fake drums here....I recorded my e-kit's midi & triggered Superior Drummer's samples for this song....

So, other than get a real kit, mics, etc., how should I proceed dude????

 

[minerman]

I like it.....but......

On both versions what bothers me is the intro guitar disappears when the other guitars kick in. sitting a bit higher in the mix with some eq to distinguish it might help.
Mind you I only listened on an LCD screen with built in speakers, but that jumped out. The intro is so very important because that is what engages the listener to go the whole distance.
Other than that small quirk, I dug it.

I actually do have a little automation on that guitar for the intro, maybe I didn't raise the level enough....Thanks for the compliments man...

Listening to mix #2...

I think that the hihat could come up, mainly in the intro. Or maybe the overheads in general could come up, because the ride disappears into the mix as well.

Holy crap, excellent guitar tones. Rhythm and lead both sound fantastic. Vocals sound good to me as well, I think they sit right in there. No frills on the vocals, I like it.

Bass is hard to judge in my room, but I think it sounds very good. Kick and bass each have their own territory. Bass sounds a little growly/boomy but I can hear it the whole way through which is more than I can say for my own mixes in this room.

Great job man, nice song to boot. It's definitely a little Southern rock, a little late 80s Hollywood. Good structure and it moves along nicely.

Thanks man, on the 2nd version, I automated the hh in the intro, maybe like the guitar, I didn't do enough??? I could tell a difference myself...I almost did the same with the ride/oh's, but thought it sounded ok, so I left 'em alone...

The guitar tones I'm actually pretty proud of, that's my Chupacabra 50w running through a Celestion G12-65 re-issue...The rhythm guitars are a '57, the lead tones are a Sennheiser e609....

I appreciate the compliments dude, thanks!!!

 

[RAMI]

What I'm doing old buddy is listening to commercial stuff at the same time that I'm listening to stuff in this forum. There doesn't seem to be an easy way to say 'this isn't quite as good as commercial, but it's really good for this forum' in a way that doesn't get on people's tits. I haven't found a way to tell people that yet and not piss somebody off. But with about a third, maybe a quarter of the stuff that gets posted here, that's essentially what I want to tell people. 'This is good and it's really interesting, but it ain't pro yet.' Maybe I'm outta line for doing that, but I see it as a way to elicit the best from people. I guess there are *many* different reasons for being here, right? But I'm trying to coax myself to get honest and really put it on the line. I see no reason to expect anything less from anybody else.

Maybe you need a drink then.

The only reason I asked is because you're over-explaining everything, and then you're over-explaining the over-explanations.

Nobody thinks you're a jerk, chill out. I honestly thought you were drinking tonight. Not because your comments about the songs are off or wrong. But you've kind of gone into a weird "I know you all think I'm a jerk" mode for no reason. It came off a little alcohol-induced, that's all. It's all good, bro. Your opinion is valued here, as much as anyone else's. Just relax and enjoy your evening.

 

[dobro]

I was being serious dude....I need help with my fake drums here....I recorded my e-kit's midi & triggered Superior Drummer's samples for this song....

So, other than get a real kit, mics, etc., how should I proceed dude????

Wow. You had me fooled. I thought it was a real kit. Well done.

In answer to your question: I dunno. Here's where I am with percussion:

* real is better than sampled - samples aren't as interesting as real

* it's really hard to get real drums together for three reasons: it's hard to play drums well; it's hard to find a space to play drums and not drive other people crazy; it's hard to find someone who can drum well who you can trawl for home recording

* I'm playing hand percussion for the above reasons. I'd like somebody with a real kit on about a third of my stuff, but I can't find someone who loves me enough to do that, so fuck it. It's hand percussion for me. (But I can get away with hand percussion because of the kind of stuff I do.)

All that being said, I think that for home recordists who are getting somewhere, drums are the key, cuz they're the biggest hurdle and they have to be g-o-o-d. I managed to talk Greg into drumming on a tune I did, and it was great and I really enjoyed it. But I need a drummer who's there for me on every tune and who's flexible enough to handle a whole variety of genres, and Greg's not that on either count. So if you don't have access to an excellent drummer (and who does?) then it's DIY time. How do you trigger your samples? Pads?

 

[dobro]

Maybe you need a drink then.

The only reason I asked is because you're over-explaining everything, and then you're over-explaining the over-explanations.

Nobody thinks you're a jerk, chill out. I honestly thought you were drinking tonight. Not because your comments about the songs are off or wrong. But you've kind of gone into a weird "I know you all think I'm a jerk" mode for no reason. It came off a little alcohol-induced, that's all. It's all good, bro. Your opinion is valued here, as much as anyone else's. Just relax and enjoy your evening.

(Apologies to minerman for the slight detour). No, I tend to come off as judgemental sometimes. I think I am, actually. I often find myself telling people what's wrong with their stuff, anyway. I think I should preface just about every comment I make in this forum with: "Look, I don't know you and I certainly don't want to hurt your feelings, but here's what I'm hearing and I hope it's helpful." People put themselves on the line in this forum. I really admire that. And that's why I worry that when I tell people what I'm hearing they'll be hurt or discouraged. What drives me is 'can you make it better than before'. What worries me is 'you put it on the line and I hope what I said didn't crush that dream you had'. I'd be completely good with this if it was face to face. But the online thing goes sideways too easily. ("Here's a stick. Try not to get the wrong end of it.")

 

[RAMI]

(Apologies to minerman for the slight detour).

Yeah, sorry Minerman. We'll give you back your thread after this.

No, I tend to come off as judgemental sometimes.

Don't worry about how you come off. Have you seen how I come off sometimes? Fuck, I can make Hitler look like Mother Teresa at times.

I often find myself telling people what's wrong with their stuff, anyway. I think I should preface just about every comment I make

Nah, as long as it's honest and balanced. I once accused you of commenting sort of just for the sake of "suggesting" something. But as I've gotten to know you, I've realized that you give positive feed back as much as you give suggestions and criticism. That's all anyone can ask from anyone here. In fact, it's what this place SHOULD be about. There are some people who will never comment on a song unless they can throw in one negative comment. There's nothing wrong with saying you don't like something. But some people ONLY post when they don't like something. You're not one of those people.

 

[RFR]

(Apologies to minerman for the slight detour). No, I tend to come off as judgemental sometimes. I think I am, actually. I often find myself telling people what's wrong with their stuff, anyway. I think I should preface just about every comment I make in this forum with: "Look, I don't know you and I certainly don't want to hurt your feelings, but here's what I'm hearing and I hope it's helpful." People put themselves on the line in this forum. I really admire that. And that's why I worry that when I tell people what I'm hearing they'll be hurt or discouraged. What drives me is 'can you make it better than before'. What worries me is 'you put it on the line and I hope what I said didn't crush that dream you had'. I'd be completely good with this if it was face to face. But the online thing goes sideways too easily. ("Here's a stick. Try not to get the wrong end of it.")

I tend to avoid this part of the forum for those reasons. Both in critiquing as well as sharing my own stuff.
I got raised with this principle of "if you aint got nothing good to say keep yo mouth shut"
It's kind of funny, but a day or so ago there was a guy criticized for not critiquing enough and just patting people on the back. That and sharing too many of his songs. something about taking too much without contributing.
Well I don't want to be that guy on both counts....so I shall refrain from critique AND putting my music out there......for now at least.

 

[dobro]

It's kind of funny, but a day or so ago there was a guy criticized for not critiquing enough and just patting people on the back. That and sharing too many of his songs. something about taking too much without contributing.

Yeah, well bozos get told 'try not to be such a bozo'. It's a balancing act. I look forward to hearing some of your stuff, too.

 

[TripleM]

Hey miner - would you mind posting your guitar chain, amps settings, etc.?

 

[BroKen_H]

The problem with only saying nice things is you tend to just pat people on the back when you could be driving them to a new level. I like, might I say love, what Dobro is trying to do for Miner here. It's a push to make something beautiful shine BRIGHTER.
Miner, as far as your voice goes...most of us hate our own voices (some of us for good reason) and I know you think yours is not where it should be. Let me just say for the record that I think your voice on this song is absolutely brilliant. There are some spots (the word "down" in the lead up, maybe cray-zee) could be retracked, but otherwise it shines. I also (if you can hit the note) might take the word "feet" up instead of down at the end of "slowly getting back on my feet." before the last chorus.
When I was in my teens, I was pressed to sing well, but I just sang anyway. Got some coaching when I was 18-19 and had nothing to be ashamed of through my 20s, 30s and into my 40s. Took 10 years off and now I need a complete overhaul. I know where my voice could be, but I've not got the time or the patience at 55 to start over...your voice (with some decent coaching) could be great, especially for bluesy rock like this song. 2c

 

[ShanPeyton]

Miner, i think this tune sounded fantastic. (on ear buds now but will reference later at home) And your vocals were spot on my man! I knew you were being to hard on yourself in another thread It sounds so good. Your guitars sound fantastic, your tone-nerding really paid off on this one. I would be stoked to hear more for you sure.

I could see this tune sitting in the dazed and confused soundtrack really nicely!!

 

[minerman]

Wow. You had me fooled. I thought it was a real kit. Well done.

Thanks man....I guess all the time I've spent fucking with these fake drums has actually helped me with 'em...And I know I'm not gonna fool any of these real drummers here, but I've been on a fuckin' mission with these things forever now...I have to say, this is probably the best I've ever done with these drum samples, so thanks man!!!

In answer to your question: I dunno. Here's where I am with percussion:

* real is better than sampled - samples aren't as interesting as real

* it's really hard to get real drums together for three reasons: it's hard to play drums well; it's hard to find a space to play drums and not drive other people crazy; it's hard to find someone who can drum well who you can trawl for home recording

* I'm playing hand percussion for the above reasons. I'd like somebody with a real kit on about a third of my stuff, but I can't find someone who loves me enough to do that, so fuck it. It's hand percussion for me. (But I can get away with hand percussion because of the kind of stuff I do.)

All that being said, I think that for home recordists who are getting somewhere, drums are the key, cuz they're the biggest hurdle and they have to be g-o-o-d. I managed to talk Greg into drumming on a tune I did, and it was great and I really enjoyed it. But I need a drummer who's there for me on every tune and who's flexible enough to handle a whole variety of genres, and Greg's not that on either count. So if you don't have access to an excellent drummer (and who does?) then it's DIY time.

Dobro, dude, I know all this, & it's the reason why I use drum samplers man...I'm sure Greg, Rami, or someone else would play drums for me on a song or two, but they wouldn't be there all the time (just like you mentioned), nor would I even think about asking them to be....So, for now, the fake drums will have to do...

How do you trigger your samples? Pads?

I have a Yamaha DTX400 e-kit, combined with a program called Jamstix 3 (which is a virtual drummer thing), with a shit-ton of Toontrack midi loops....I spend hours upon hours tweaking the individual hits in the piano roll dude....you have no idea how much time I've spent on just this one song...

Thanks again, & don't worry about de-railing this thread guys...

 

[RAMI]

I know I'm not gonna fool any of these real drummers here

Not true. I thought they were real. These are probably the best fake drums I've ever heard, and I'm not just blowing smoke up your ass. If you told me your friend Nigel from across the street played drums for you on this tune, I wouldn't have even batted an eyelash. And I have some really nice eyelashes, I've been told.

 

[minerman]

Hey miner - would you mind posting your guitar chain, amps settings, etc.?

Rhythm guitars were:

LP > Chupacabra > Celestion G12-65 re-issue > '57 > daw (there is a little eq & reverb on all the guitar tracks btw)

Lead/slide guitars:

Ibanez RG350 (Duncan Custom Custom bridge p'up) > Chupacabra > '65 > e609 > daw (eq, reverb, delay/chorus on these tracks)

I'd have to open the project to see the actual amp settings (I save them in Reaper's notepad thing) but just what I can remember are:

Resonance: 1
Presence: 5
Bass: 3-4
Mid: 6-7
Treble: 6-7
Master: 7-8
Gain 2: 1-2
Gain 1: 6-7

On the rhythm guitars I do remember having the era switch on 80's mode, with the bright 2 on the right setting...
Lead guitars were modern mode with bright 1 flipped to the left...

I never use the bright switches together, one or the other is centered all the time...This is just a general setting I use to start with, but most of the time I end up somewhere pretty close....But I will say the bright switches can drastically alter the tone...

 

[minerman]

Ken: Thanks man, but I really do think my vocals just plain suck...It's something I've needed to work on for a long time...thanks again dude...

Shan: Thanks Shan, yeah, I can finally say I have good guitar tones dude, but it's took a lot of trial/error, plus I've got some pretty good gear now...thanks again...

Rami: Wow man, I thought you knew all along....Gives me hope, but I know that real drums are better, but there's no way I can have real drums in my songs for now, so the fake drums will have to do for now....thanks again!!!

 

[Tadpui]

I do have to agree that the drums sound very good in this, very convincing. I have the same e-kit and the same software, but I have yet to get anything this convincing out of it. It just sounds much more organic and acoustic than mine do.

 

[Bubba po]

Not true. I thought they were real. These are probably the best fake drums I've ever heard, and I'm not just blowing smoke up your ass. If you told me your friend Nigel from across the street played drums for you on this tune, I wouldn't have even batted an eyelash. And I have some really nice eyelashes, I've been told.

I too was undecided, that's why I asked him. I was suspicious initially because the drum sounds were so good, especially the snare, but then I wavered because there were slight human timing errors/inconsistencies; or "feel" if you prefer.