Opportunity to send music to Universal A&R rep please help quickly!

Hey jeffmaher when you said the first song did you mean Heaven? That is the acoustic ballad one. The order of the songs got switched around on soundclick when I reuploaded files so I am not sure which one your referring to. And thanks for the compliments:). I'm giving everyone who responded to this thread a big rep for helping out!
 
Yes, Heaven's the one I mean. A great listen....song-wise. The recording has some issues. But the A&R guys are gonna be listening right through that. Not an issue for the intended purpose. You'll be doing it again if you sign, likely.
 
Well, sound waves are created by mechanical motion. Without power [energy], there is no music. No noise, either, provided there are molecules and atoms of matter to transfer the mechanical energy to.

Power, in compositional terms, is essential. It means the difference between noise, un-inspirational sentences of notes, and something that can stir emotion, and transcend its own physical reality, into the spiritual, by use of dynamics, tones, rhythm, space and counterpoint, etc. to tweak emotion : variations in the playout of 'power'.

Being so new, you probably aren' aware of what, exactly, 'rep power' is.

So I'll splain it, if you want me to...

If you could explain what you mean in more detail, it would be interesting.
 
i shouldn't have to explain it, especially to a musician, and i highly doubt Nikola Tesla father of the modern age (and the 'power' you speak of) would agree with 'rep power'

what makes you in favor of it?
 
jeffmaher said:
Perhaps offtopic, but good gravy, what do you (or anyone else, for that matter) need a record label for?

How much money does Punker have to hire a professional studio, engineer, CD manufacturer, and promotion and distribution companies....who get paid up-front... to groom and sell his very nice music? [with no guarantee of a return on his investment??] A couple hundred thou?
Click to expand...

What makes you think a record company will invest in same with no guarantee of return on their investment. Study up on the notion of "recoupables", and understand the notion that Billy Joel, on the multi-platinum album Piano Man netted, after all of the recoupables, about $7,000 on that album. Multi-platinum.

And if you think you need a couple hundred thou to produce a professionally recorded, mixed, and mastered CD, you haven't done the research. You're off by an order of magnitude or more.

The old-school dream of "a major label picked me up! I'm gonna be a star!!!" is antiquated. Anyway, we're still way off topic, sorry for taking the conversation here, this subject is for the Promotion forum.
 
What makes you think a record company will invest in same with no guarantee of return on their investment.

They minimize risk, but sometimes must write off losses.


Study up on the notion of "recoupables", and understand the notion that Billy Joel, on the multi-platinum album Piano Man netted, after all of the recoupables, about $7,000 on that album. Multi-platinum.

I know all about that.

And if you think you need a couple hundred thou to produce a professionally recorded, mixed, and mastered CD, you haven't done the research. You're off by an order of magnitude or more.

You miss the promotion/distrubution cost. That's the biggie.


The old-school dream of "a major label picked me up! I'm gonna be a star!!!" is antiquated.

Not so. Just not the only game in town anymore. But still king of the hill.
 
Yeah I totally agree with Jeff on this all the way. For us at least, its more about what a label can provide you with: Professional studio time, shows with bigger acts, and worldwide distribution not only online, but in stores as well, and all these and other things that are very difficult to achieve on the indie side of things. While I certainly don't think that signing with a label suddenly guarantees quote "stardom" I do think that it provides you with an invaluable toolset that is otherwise out of reach for us, and most musicians.
 
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Well, I certainly wish you all the luck and success in the world. You're going up a big, steep hill, but you have a good attitude, and that goes a long way..
 
Punker: I have two younger acquantances who've traveled this road before you in Europe and the US. Every deal is unique....but expect to play 'B' venues, sleep on busses, eat cold food, get survival wages...all the while waiting for something big to happen. Both of these guys' bands freaked out after a year or two and gave up; but other acts they shared billing with....during the beta-testing-newbies-phase....who HUNG IN THERE.... are playing in the Billboard charts this day. There's a bit of self-ass kicking going on. It's not easy. But the potential reward is great, if you can hold on and be without family, money, security and rest, for a few years.

You will be screwed. You will have fights. You will make little money for a while. And money 'advanced' DOES all get swiped back by the company before you see a dime from the profits of a record.

But I hear potential in your writing. A lot. Business/musical wizzes who've groomed other acts for a long time will try to bend you. Most would say, 'Don't be bent.'

But it pays to be flexible....these cats know what they are doing. Get success their way [but don't let them make you do things you're uncomfortable with], and then you've earned the right to do it your way.

Be nice. Patient. Positive. Grateful. Humble. WORK!! [Bruce Springsteen is a good model]
I also have among my friends a couple who threw away certain success by being pains in the ass to those who were handling them. John Hammond did not take kindly to being told to hurry up.

"I thought we had a deal!"

"We did!" [*click*] Note past tense. My bud is still regretting being a fool. It was his first..and last... shot. His life would be much different today if he'd kept his mouth shut, and temper, in the box. Great writer, singer, musician: working his way down to dying drunk in a gutter....like Bix.

The recording industry, as a whole, runs on a different clock than most of the world. It takes a long time for things to happen, most of the time.

You will make it, if you can wait patiently, be a gentleman, stay sober, and believe in yourself and your destiny...and sacrifice for what you can dream about.

But first, get that contract!!

I also know some people who've succeeded on this road. It is real. Keeping it going is up to you.

ps...don't be discouraged if this invitation doesn't pan out. More opportunities will come. You're too good at what you do to fail, IMHO.

How does it feel to have you first "OH SHIT!!!" moment? :^)
 
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sorry about that Jeff :o, i don't know what got into me lol. Hope you & original poster accept my apology. The mainstream world has alot to offer also, and your advice is helpful. I like your country song too btw (sorry off topic), and good luck again to punkrocker :)
 
No worries, mate. But I'm sincerely interested in your definition of 'power' with regard to music, and how you believe it ruins music. I don't disagree with what you say, necessarily...I just don't know what you're talking about!

Maybe I'm thick...I do need an explaination!

I mean, composition and performance is only about utilizing mechanical means ...power... to create sounds, which the artist controls and assembles in aesthetically pleasing ways. So, without any power at all, there is nothing.

Power in music is enhanced or reduced by means of techniques like unison, counterpoint, volume, etc. Are you saying that an excess of 'power' in composition is the spoiler? It can be, absolutely. One of the first fundamentals of composition is maintaining listener interest through contrast. An all-power song resembles a painting with nothing but bright-red everywhere...stark brightness. Striking for a moment...but not much there to hold the eye for more than a second.

Just curious about what you're saying.
 
hi jeff, i just meant power as in powerful people etc... deciding what we hear, how we live, who we are/supposed to be etc... and did not mean electrical or literal music power:). sorry for not being clear

although i found your comments on musical power interesting & will keep in mind your points, i think i understand what you mean however could you provide me with an example of a comp that is too powerful in the way you described and one that isn't? thanks either way
 
jeffmaher said:
Punker: I have two younger acquantances who've traveled this road before you in Europe and the US. Every deal is unique....but expect to play 'B' venues, sleep on busses, eat cold food, get survival wages...all the while waiting for something big to happen. Both of these guys' bands freaked out after a year or two and gave up; but other acts they shared billing with....during the beta-testing-newbies-phase....who HUNG IN THERE.... are playing in the Billboard charts this day. There's a bit of self-ass kicking going on. It's not easy. But the potential reward is great, if you can hold on and be without family, money, security and rest, for a few years.

You will be screwed. You will have fights. You will make little money for a while. And money 'advanced' DOES all get swiped back by the company before you see a dime from the profits of a record.

But I hear potential in your writing. A lot. Business/musical wizzes who've groomed other acts for a long time will try to bend you. Most would say, 'Don't be bent.'

But it pays to be flexible....these cats know what they are doing. Get success their way [but don't let them make you do things you're uncomfortable with], and then you've earned the right to do it your way.

Be nice. Patient. Positive. Grateful. Humble. WORK!! [Bruce Springsteen is a good model]
I also have among my friends a couple who threw away certain success by being pains in the ass to those who were handling them. John Hammond did not take kindly to being told to hurry up.

"I thought we had a deal!"

"We did!" [*click*] Note past tense. My bud is still regretting being a fool. It was his first..and last... shot. His life would be much different today if he'd kept his mouth shut, and temper, in the box. Great writer, singer, musician: working his way down to dying drunk in a gutter....like Bix.

The recording industry, as a whole, runs on a different clock than most of the world. It takes a long time for things to happen, most of the time.

You will make it, if you can wait patiently, be a gentleman, stay sober, and believe in yourself and your destiny...and sacrifice for what you can dream about.

But first, get that contract!!

I also know some people who've succeeded on this road. It is real. Keeping it going is up to you.

ps...don't be discouraged if this invitation doesn't pan out. More opportunities will come. You're too good at what you do to fail, IMHO.

How does it feel to have you first "OH SHIT!!!" moment? :^)
Click to expand...

Solid, well-grounded advice.
 
could you provide me with an example of a comp that is too powerful in the way you described and one that isn't? thanks either way

I think you'll find among the posts here good examples of either extreme. Music we may know in-common, otherwise, is rarely at those extremes, where power..or lack thereof....destroys the appeal of a work. They are unsellable to most people. Few ever hear them.

The power you spoke of is a whole 'nuther thing. And , while it's sometimes true that a promotional push can influence the tastes of the masses, most times those appeals are subject to the product being good in the first place: general awareness of a good product is necessary to sell it. The history of pop music if full of people who failed , despite the spending of millions on promotion...because they actually sucked...and were self promoted, or financed by fools.

To mind come, say, Peter Lemonjello; Lord Sutch. There was an actor/director/producer named John Carpenter, IIRC, who is the reigning king of that, in my estimation. One of those guys who thought you could get people to eat a crap sandwich if you spent enough money advertizing it as fillet mignion. People aren't THAT stupid..in the main!!

There are exceptions: I could never figure out how Hamilton, Joe, Frank, Reynolds, and whomever, ever sold a record. Or friggin' Yanni. What's up with that? :-)^O
 
jeffmaher said:
And , while it's sometimes true that a promotional push can influence the tastes of the masses, most times those appeals are subject to the product being good in the first place: general awareness of a good product is necessary to sell it.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I really agree with this part, Jeff. I guess I'm talking specifically about "pop radio" tunes here, but look at stuff like American Idol alumni and the whole dreadful batch of what I call "Theory of a Creedleback" bands that enjoy massive sales.

I really believe the vast majority of music consumers are not very discerning, and are very impressionable when it comes to marketing and promotion. It's like, as long as a song has a singer that's "on key" and the melody is mildly catchy (read: familiar and re-hashed) then it's "good music". I think the "Theory of a Creedleback" bands produce bland, formulaic, unimaginative dreck for the most part--but so many people figure hey, if the songs are in beer commercials they must be great, so I'll buy the CD and pay $100 to go to the concert.

I can't count the number of times I have gone on this type of rant in front of people who are less "into" music, and they look at me like I'm nuts. Inevitably, I get the "But look how many records they've sold... obviously they're great!" argument. As soon as I hear that one, I just give up because I figure the point is being missed entirely.

I don't know, I realize this is all just my opinion, and maybe it's me who is out to lunch. But geeze, I just don't get it sometimes.

For a bit of levity, I'd encourage everybody to listen to Canadian comedian Jon Lajoie's take on this subject. I couldn't have said it better myself!

(warning: lyrics NOT safe for work)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0Gs4xGw1Eg

Matt
 
Wow, you know you sound JUST LIKE Brandon Boyd of Incubus. Very good Alt. Rock vox. I would lose everything else sadly... The music could be better, not saying things are WRONG... just not commercial enough for a major group like UMG to enjoy. Keep it up with the vocals man, love the voice!
 
Hey! Dreck is MY word!

Well...hmmmm:

Urban rap is something I can't dig at all. But it's a huge seller. A lot of people like it, and I see them dancing to it...and playing it in their cars...real loud: the modern equivalent of "Born to be Wild" blasting on the 8-track in the Barracuda. That's not something that was whipped up in a corporate office: it was the result of a bunch of kids playing with MIDI and computers who made something they and their friends liked. Then it was picked up by the Phat Cigar crowd in Haggar slacks. It's appeal pre-dated the promotion.
Kid Rock invented his own offshoot of the mayhem, and was successfully selling out venues in Detroit when that same corporate crowd discovered him. I think most of those business types are not artistically gifted or creative enough to choose or fabricate the next 'rage'. But they pour their money into something that is a little fire...and fan it into a much bigger fire.

There are 6 billion+ people on the planet. If what you do is good...and can start that small fire within 40 miles of where you live and work, someone with money and a talent for the art-of-the-deal will exploit it. Then we can all say how your music is just formulaic dreck. :^)

Some formulas work. Like meter and time....800,000 years old? If it works, don't fix it.....like hot babes dancing to a hot beat. I read about that stuff in the Bible. Some things never change...except the names. Annapoonanna Ashakhouri is now Brittney Spears. And , I ashmedly, enjoy some of that...'specially on vid. :^)....and wish I had that amount of appeal.
Let's be rational: Brittney could really blow the roof of a karaoke bar.
 
jeffmaher said:
Punker: I have two younger acquantances who've traveled this road before you in Europe and the US. Every deal is unique....but expect to play 'B' venues, sleep on busses, eat cold food, get survival wages...all the while waiting for something big to happen. Both of these guys' bands freaked out after a year or two and gave up; but other acts they shared billing with....during the beta-testing-newbies-phase....who HUNG IN THERE.... are playing in the Billboard charts this day. There's a bit of self-ass kicking going on. It's not easy. But the potential reward is great, if you can hold on and be without family, money, security and rest, for a few years.

You will be screwed. You will have fights. You will make little money for a while. And money 'advanced' DOES all get swiped back by the company before you see a dime from the profits of a record.

But I hear potential in your writing. A lot. Business/musical wizzes who've groomed other acts for a long time will try to bend you. Most would say, 'Don't be bent.'

But it pays to be flexible....these cats know what they are doing. Get success their way [but don't let them make you do things you're uncomfortable with], and then you've earned the right to do it your way.

Be nice. Patient. Positive. Grateful. Humble. WORK!! [Bruce Springsteen is a good model]
I also have among my friends a couple who threw away certain success by being pains in the ass to those who were handling them. John Hammond did not take kindly to being told to hurry up.

"I thought we had a deal!"

"We did!" [*click*] Note past tense. My bud is still regretting being a fool. It was his first..and last... shot. His life would be much different today if he'd kept his mouth shut, and temper, in the box. Great writer, singer, musician: working his way down to dying drunk in a gutter....like Bix.

The recording industry, as a whole, runs on a different clock than most of the world. It takes a long time for things to happen, most of the time.

You will make it, if you can wait patiently, be a gentleman, stay sober, and believe in yourself and your destiny...and sacrifice for what you can dream about.

But first, get that contract!!

I also know some people who've succeeded on this road. It is real. Keeping it going is up to you.

ps...don't be discouraged if this invitation doesn't pan out. More opportunities will come. You're too good at what you do to fail, IMHO.

How does it feel to have you first "OH SHIT!!!" moment? :^)
Click to expand...
Hey thanks jeff that is great advice. And thanks to everyone who has helped me out on this thread I'm taking the songs in tonight so I'm going to cross my fingers and hope for the best. Final order of tracks is:

1. Heaven (shortened intro)
2. Disease
3. Crowd Control (shortened intro)
4. Crash and Burn (shortened intro)
5. City Lights
 
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