Online Mixing and Mastering engineers? (Legit or bullshit?)

H

hiphop24360

New member
Hey, I have seen alot of websites that offer professional mixing engineers to mix your track for whatever $$ and websites offering to master your track for whatever $$......My question is are these websites a joke in general or are they legit...or is it case by case?

Some of them appear to have pretty impressive credentials (working with grammy winning artists and uber top dollar analog gear and charging only like $200 bucks a mix...even cheaper for mastering, normally Id just write it off "too good to be true" but the music industry has hit hard times)

At this point I finally have a decent setup for recording semi-polished vocals, Mic, Rode K2---comp, Art Pro VLA----Preamp, BL Auteur ---Interface EMU 404 USB 2.0......Computer.....Fairly well treated room.

My problem is that I am still fairly new to mixing, and a stranger to mastering ..... Believe me I am reading and practicing constantly, but at this point I just don't feel comfortable releasing my own mixes....just not quite there yet....plus it always seems better for someone else to mix your work other than you....Im told they will offer lots of insightful advice as well.

Now alot of this has to do with me as an artist of course, but im actually fairly satisfied with that aspect...and I think its time to start putting some shit out and hitting the pavement, however I don't want my albeit well recorded and well conceived tracks to end up in the "local garbage" category due to my (lack of) skillz as a mixing engineer. (Which im really not, although dream to be someday.)

What do ya'll think. Sorry for the ramble
 
hiphop24360 said:
Hey, I have seen alot of websites that offer professional mixing engineers to mix your track for whatever $$ and websites offering to master your track for whatever $$......My question is are these websites a joke in general or are they legit...or is it case by case?
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It's case by case.
There are more and more people providing online services today, so
I think it's a matter a being able to distinguish between what is bloated (fictitious) marketing and what is an honest service that will work with you to give you the best results.

It's all about communication and trust when it comes to working online with someone you have not met, but are still trusting with your work. Usually through emails or phone calls you can get a pretty good gauge of a persons work ethic. Ask the right questions, maybe get references.
 
Definitely case-by-case. It's a dodgy market, unfortunately, because the number of proper mixing or mastering engineers out there is necessarily much lower than the number of hacks who really have no idea what they're doing.

Unfortunately for most newbs it takes a bit of knowledge on the part of the client to tell the difference. If one doesn't actually know enough about the mixing or mastering process, it can be very difficult to sniff out the reality from the BS.

It's kinda like hiring a plumber or carpenter; if you don't know enough about what actually needs to be done and how it shold be done, it can be difficult to tell which one actually knows his craft and is giving you the honest estimate, and which one is just some guy who *thinks* he knows what he's doing and attracts you with a bargain price, but will really wind up doing a hack job that in three months you'll wind up having to have fixed by a real professional.

And as a customer, I'd approach it the same way we often do with the other trades; get recommendations and referrals from friends and family who you trust whom have already had experience with the person/business.

G.
 
http://www.massivemastering.com/blog/index_files/mastering_scams_buyer_beware.php

That's old, it was written in "rant" mode (it's also had somewhere around a half-million views). There are a LOT of scammers out there. That one was written specifically about mastering facilities, but it certainly relates to -- I guess it relates to anything you want.

As mentioned, it's case-by-case. There ARE some great engineers out there that offer online service for reasonable rates (Our own Farview is one). There are also a lot of know-nothings with cracked software pushing themselves as if they were the latest big thing and shame on you that you haven't heard of them (although many of them don't even put their real name on their sites).
 
Great Replies!!

Massive Mastering, Thank you that article/rant of yours was exactly what I was wondering.

southside -- Haha basically like any internet service, dodgy market at best, that whole hiding behind a computer thing really works (bastards).

Thats really good advice about the references/referalls, I had just kind of assumed that any engineer worth hiring could provide a decent example of their work.....but whether their flat lying about making the mix is still a toss up...unfortunately I dont know anyone around here willing to spend money, or even bother with a tracked out beat so trusted references are about out of the picture (damn ultra-small town), actually I guess what I can do is seek advice on wherever I choose from forum members I trust and rely on for good info. (Massive Mastering, Looking at you)

Im not really going with super budget work (that never goes good IME) so I hope to avoid most of the completely useless "budget" engineers out there. (fingers crossed).....Im fairly knowledgeable (more read than experienced, admitted) at mixing so I should realize if Im getting my chain yanked in front of me, Im "Ok" at best though, only been working/learning about mixing since may....I think I know about %80 percent of what I need to, but that other twenty is what seperates the pro's from amateur night ...

Ok im off to google what the average rates are for "Solid" but not "Famous and well recognized" sound engineer's.

p.s. Do you think I should hire a different engineer for mastering than I do for mixing, I notice alot of sites say "Mixed and mastered" which throws up a red flag almost....I thought you always wanted someone different, in a different room, with different monitors, and different ears, to do the master than you used for the mix? Myth or truth?

Thanks Everyone, really insightful advice , Massive, I would like to use you if I can afford it, you have been really helpful to me on many occasions, hopefully in a couple months I'll have the money collected and shoot you a PM or hit your website,

Thanks for all your help.
 
Massive Master said:
http://www.massivemastering.com/blog/index_files/mastering_scams_buyer_beware.php

That's old, it was written in "rant" mode (it's also had somewhere around a half-million views). There are a LOT of scammers out there. That one was written specifically about mastering facilities, but it certainly relates to -- I guess it relates to anything you want.

As mentioned, it's case-by-case. There ARE some great engineers out there that offer online service for reasonable rates (Our own Farview is one). There are also a lot of know-nothings with cracked software pushing themselves as if they were the latest big thing and shame on you that you haven't heard of them (although many of them don't even put their real name on their sites).
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ha, I just read the article. I remember once seeing a site a while ago where they had before after samples where the before samples were all in mono and I thought "how in the world do they do that?" After listening a few times I realized "oh, they don't."
 
p.s. Do you think I should hire a different engineer for mastering than I do for mixing, I notice alot of sites say "Mixed and mastered" which throws up a red flag almost....I thought you always wanted someone different, in a different room, with different monitors, and different ears, to do the master than you used for the mix? Myth or truth?
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Truth. I wont' even master my own recordings as a general rule (although I have a few times, but under intense protest).

Thanks Everyone, really insightful advice , Massive, I would like to use you if I can afford it, you have been really helpful to me on many occasions, hopefully in a couple months I'll have the money collected and shoot you a PM or hit your website,
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Appreciated back. And if the time comes and the $$$ don't add up, shoot me a message anyway and I'll see if I can help via referral or something.
 
I was one of the first to start an online mixing and mastering service, Online Mixing and Mastering (my URL) in 2006.
There were no services using that name at the time. Now there are 1000´s using Online Mixing and Mastering as their heading.
And most of them are crap. My advice is to use your ears. Most services offer free samples of their work, before you pay. Mine service does.
And you can´t just go by the name of the company. I´ve heard some terrible mixes and masters done by some very well know services.
I won´t mention their names here, but I was really shocked. Remember, it´s not the name, or the equipment (equipment to a degree) that´s the most important, it´s the guy that´s sitting behind the board, his ears, his experience, and if he gives you the sound you´re looking for with your music.
Good luck.
 
Remember - when someone else is doing the mixing, they are going by their judgement, and might not mix to what YOU want as a sound. What is their rate for rework, do they give yoa first 'trial' mix so you can judge their work?
Depending on the number of tracks, $200 can be a bargain or a rip-off. I can mix a 16 track song of my own down in a couple of hours, but then refining the mix can take many many more hours after that.
 
I was one of the first to start an online mixing and mastering service, Online Mixing and Mastering (my URL) in 2006.
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I know it's just semantics, but nearly every reasonably well-established studio in existence had "online mixing and mastering" services since ---- Geez, I was doing it in the early/mid 90's at the JEM complex, even forum buddies Farview and BlueBear have been offering it since the late 90's/early 2000's.

Working via data transfer is nothing new... Starting a studio that worked exclusively with an internet storefront is newer - But still, easily since the late 90's.

You may have been the first to have that URL, but believe me -- Nowhere near the first to offer the service.
 
Massive Master said:
I know it's just semantics, but nearly every reasonably well-established studio in existence had "online mixing and mastering" services since ---- Geez, I was doing it in the early/mid 90's at the JEM complex, even forum buddies Farview and BlueBear have been offering it since the late 90's/early 2000's.

Working via data transfer is nothing new... Starting a studio that worked exclusively with an internet storefront is newer - But still, easily since the late 90's.

You may have been the first to have that URL, but believe me -- Nowhere near the first to offer the service.
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ISDN? Man I remember paying 550 a month for my 128kbps circuit!
 
OMM said:
My advice is to use your ears. Most services offer free samples of their work, before you pay. Mine service does.
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Just curious, but do your examples contain excerpts of both the original and mastered versions? Is it even possible to assess a mastering engineer based on only the result "output" file?

--Ethan
 
Some of them are a pile of bullsh*t and are taking advantage of gullible people unfortunately.
That being said there are many honest professionals on the web, me being one of them.
Just be wary of ones that just don't seem right.

G
 
hiphop24360 said:
Hey, I have seen alot of websites that offer professional mixing engineers to mix your track for whatever $$ and websites offering to master your track for whatever $$......My question is are these websites a joke in general or are they legit...or is it case by case?
Click to expand...

Just learn the process and do it yourself. The beauty of the home recording hobby and technology is that you don't need any of those guys anymore.
 
I can master any song for $7. Send me your credit card number, and address. Oh, and at what times during the day are you not at home? I need a new TV.

Finding a reputable ME is not that hard to find, especially around here. Putting budget before quality, is never a good investment. Cheap=Crap. When finalizing a project, the last thing you ever want to do is cut corners. If you care about your work, pay for quality mastering, or forever suck.

This is coming from a guy who 'home' masters most of the bands that I record. If it were my baby, I would send it to a pro. I recommend it every time, but most are just not listening.
 
Greg_L said:
Just learn the process and do it yourself. The beauty of the home recording hobby and technology is that you don't need any of those guys anymore.
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I have to disagree there a bit Greg. You are in complete control of your whole project. You are not the typical home recordist. Kind of a freak actually. I know how it is.

Most do not have the ability to make the judgements that are necessary to put the icing on the cake. Hell, some can't even bake.

I definitely like the opinion of another ear when it comes to final mastering. Yes, I do it myself 99% of the time, but it is always good to have another trained ears give an opinion. Trusting in that other ear is what is important. Whether it is something you would do or not, is not important. In fact, your product is not in need of any outside mastering IMO. Not everyone is you however.
:)
 
jimmys69 said:
I have to disagree there a bit Greg. You are in complete control of your whole project. You are not the typical home recordist. Kind of a freak actually. I know how it is.

Most do not have the ability to make the judgements that are necessary to put the icing on the cake. Hell, some can't even bake.

I definitely like the opinion of another ear when it comes to final mastering. Yes, I do it myself 99% of the time, but it is always good to have another trained ears give an opinion. Trusting in that other ear is what is important. Whether it is something you would do or not, is not important. In fact, your product is not in need of any outside mastering IMO. Not everyone is you however.
:)
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That's what listening clinics are for. Like our MP3 clinic. Every forum has one. You can get all kinds of ears to listen and give you feedback. Different people hear things differently. You can take it or leave it. Then you decide what to do with it. If ten people say "the low end is really muddy", then you might wanna look into that. If one guy that makes sucky mixes himself trashes your song, then blow it off. And as a bonus, you just might learn something by doing it yourself.

Cost: $0. :D
 
jimmys69 said:
Not everyone is you however.
:)
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But last year, everyone was. I remember when he started asking questions about mastering and I think his point is that everyone can learn it. It's just one more hurdle that eventually, the home recorder will cross.
 
grimtraveller said:
But last year, everyone was. I remember when he started asking questions about mastering and I think his point is that everyone can learn it. It's just one more hurdle that eventually, the home recorder will cross.
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Yes. No one is born knowing how to do anything. You have to jump in and try things to learn things.
 
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