On the usefulness of ADAT in today's recording environment

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elbandito

potential lunch winner
A few days ago, I came across an ADAT XL at a pawn shop and have been thinking about it ever since. In today's digital recording environment, how useful would something like an ADAT or a cassette recorder of any kind be? It seems to me that everything that either of these devices could provide, in terms of that 'tape sound' can be provided in a more controlled way by a plugin. Short of a 1/4" tape recording device, I can't think of any magnetic recording medium that would be worth the trouble... and yet, I still kinda want the ADAT machine.

Today, I broke out my old Yamaha MT4X 4-track because I wanted to play with it. It has been literally collecting dust for years - and it sounds hissy and lo-fi, as expected. Later, I'm gonna try to dump some digitally-recorded drum tracks to it (if I can find a tape somewhere) and then back into my DAW to see what they end up sounding like. I don't have high expectations about the end result or about what an ADAT could provide me but all the same, there's still this little bug in me that says "Go ahead, brother. Buy that sucker!"

Is this just another case of G.A.S., or is my subconcious trying to tell me something? Why would anyone want to incorporate an archaic device like this into their modern recording setup?
 
A few days ago, I came across an ADAT XL at a pawn shop and have been thinking about it ever since. In today's digital recording environment, how useful would something like an ADAT or a cassette recorder of any kind be? It seems to me that everything that either of these devices could provide, in terms of that 'tape sound' can be provided in a more controlled way by a plugin. Short of a 1/4" tape recording device, I can't think of any magnetic recording medium that would be worth the trouble... and yet, I still kinda want the ADAT machine.

Today, I broke out my old Yamaha MT4X 4-track because I wanted to play with it. It has been literally collecting dust for years - and it sounds hissy and lo-fi, as expected. Later, I'm gonna try to dump some digitally-recorded drum tracks to it (if I can find a tape somewhere) and then back into my DAW to see what they end up sounding like. I don't have high expectations about the end result or about what an ADAT could provide me but all the same, there's still this little bug in me that says "Go ahead, brother. Buy that sucker!"

Is this just another case of G.A.S., or is my subconcious trying to tell me something? Why would anyone want to incorporate an archaic device like this into their modern recording setup?

Well...ADAT is digital not analog !!
 
Yeah, the ADAT is just an 8-track digital tape recorder using S-VHS tapes. I think it can top out at 20/48 but honestly, I'd either get an analogue recorder or a disk-based digital recorder unless you need to transfer some old tapes.
And yes, since it's digital it will do absolutely squat towards getting you any 'tape' sound.
 
Hey, do any of you chaps know of any good forums where I might find some tascam/adat heads?

I've two da88s that I can't shift, but I'm sure someone out there would get good use of them.
 
Hey, do any of you chaps know of any good forums where I might find some tascam/adat heads?

I've two da88s that I can't shift, but I'm sure someone out there would get good use of them.

I have 2 DA38s and not even using because I had one eat an important tape that i had laboresly worked on and it git ate after haveing the deck in storage for a few yrs. Cant fix the tapes when that happens and to answer your question on the heads....you could by the whole machine so cheap that it would NOT be worth re-heading one i can tell you that !!;) Want my 2 DA38s?
 
IMO ADAT is the worst of both worlds... the harshness of digital and the maintenance of a mechanical tape transport, and even worse... a VCR type transport. They don't last very long compared to analog reel-to-reel decks. Analog has outlived ADAT.

Cassette tape on the other hand can be very useful, especially at double speed like most portastudios run and with good high bias tape, like Maxell XLII or TDK SA. Cassette tape sounds better to me all the time as digital standards continue to slide.
 
imo adat is the worst of both worlds... The harshness of digital and the maintenance of a mechanical tape transport, and even worse... A vcr type transport. They don't last very long compared to analog reel-to-reel decks. Analog has outlived adat.

Cassette tape on the other hand can be very useful, especially at double speed like most portastudios run and with good high bias tape, like maxell xlii or tdk sa. Cassette tape sounds better to me all the time as digital standards continue to slide.

exactly true and maxell and tdk should be putting out chrome tapes again !!!
 
IMO ADAT is the worst of both worlds... the harshness of digital and the maintenance of a mechanical tape transport, and even worse... a VCR type transport. They don't last very long compared to analog reel-to-reel decks. Analog has outlived ADAT.

Cassette tape on the other hand can be very useful, especially at double speed like most portastudios run and with good high bias tape, like Maxell XLII or TDK SA. Cassette tape sounds better to me all the time as digital standards continue to slide.

Beck you know very well, digital is not harsh. With digital, what goes in is what comes out. How can neutrality be harsh?

What you call harsh is the absence of your beloved analog tape distortion. You may as well call every microphone, every preamp, every vocalist and musical instrument in the world "harsh" because they "dont sound like analog tape"
As you once said, "better than live" And that's the trouble with real voices, real instruments. They just dont sound like analog tape...

In the 90's ADAT was a huge success because now for $12,000 (the cost of three 8 track ADAT machines) a small project studio could do high quality 24 track digital at a fraction of the cost of the big pro digital machines like the Sony PCM 3324 at $150,000.

Sure, using a VHS type transport was a design compromise, but that's what made it affordable for countless project studios on a budget.
In the same way previously, the VHS or Beta VCR was well short of a professional VTR, but it made home video recording a reality for millions of people for many years.

"Analog has outlived ADAT".
No, digital ADAT died because by the late 90's better digital HDD's came along. Digital tape was supplanted by digital HDD's.

From where we are today it's easy to take a cheap swipe at ADAT but it was the prosumer forerunner of HDD based recording which the vast majority of users today take for granted.

Tim
 
Whatever. The usefulness of ADAT today, as originally posed by the thread starter can be gauged by the number of them on eBay and elsewhere that dont even attract an opening bid. The exception being if you happen to have some archieved material on ADAT, other wise dont bother IMHO.
 
I dislike and will always dislike Adat machines. When they came out in the 1990's I had just purchased a brand new Tascam MSR16S, a lot of money. Then Adats were released 2 months later. For the same money I could have bought 3 x Adats and had 24 track digital, however that was not the problem. My MSR16S sounded fantastic, the recording I was doing for clients came out great and I was really happy with it. The problem was that everyone that rang up wanted to know if I had the new digital Adats? A bit like the ones that ring up and ask if I use Pootools now, which I don't. I lost work because everyone wanted the new all singing and dancing Digital Adat's.

Now the facts, the Adats sound like crap, they were not as good as everyone first thought, it was the magic of DIGITAL, with the word digital appearing on everything from home stereos to toasters. Digital in the 1990's did not mean good. Within a few years everyone was trying to buy back the analog machines that they sold cheap when they bought the Adat's, a friend of mine that did mastering was using one as a DA to AD converter but only to listen to playback from a PC, he never even had a tape for it, bought it so cheap that it did not matter.

Me, well I just kept on using the MSR16S, which I still have and runs like new, until years later I got a Tascam MX2424 hard disc recorder, which does sound good.

Alan.
 
Whatever. The usefulness of ADAT today, as originally posed by the thread starter can be gauged by the number of them on eBay and elsewhere that dont even attract an opening bid. The exception being if you happen to have some archieved material on ADAT, other wise dont bother IMHO.

Exactly, and nothing I said is in disagreement with that. There are far better digital products available today.

Tim
 
I dislike and will always dislike Adat machines. When they came out in the 1990's I had just purchased a brand new Tascam MSR16S, a lot of money. Then Adats were released 2 months later. For the same money I could have bought 3 x Adats and had 24 track digital, however that was not the problem. My MSR16S sounded fantastic, the recording I was doing for clients came out great and I was really happy with it. The problem was that everyone that rang up wanted to know if I had the new digital Adats? A bit like the ones that ring up and ask if I use Pootools now, which I don't. I lost work because everyone wanted the new all singing and dancing Digital Adat's.

Now the facts, the Adats sound like crap, they were not as good as everyone first thought, it was the magic of DIGITAL, with the word digital appearing on everything from home stereos to toasters. Digital in the 1990's did not mean good. Within a few years everyone was trying to buy back the analog machines that they sold cheap when they bought the Adat's, a friend of mine that did mastering was using one as a DA to AD converter but only to listen to playback from a PC, he never even had a tape for it, bought it so cheap that it did not matter.

Me, well I just kept on using the MSR16S, which I still have and runs like new, until years later I got a Tascam MX2424 hard disc recorder, which does sound good.

Alan.

Hi Alan,

At least you are honest about the fact that you had just shelled out a lot more money for the MSR 16 and you were losing work because people were asking for digital recording.
The general public will always be ignorant of the finer details of a technical subject area. I too am sick to death of the way the word DIGITAL has been reduced to a marketing term in all sorts of areas beyond audio just to get more sales. But it was ever so. Before that it was STEREO and HIFI. The terms became almost meaningless.

It's obvious ADAT used a tape transport designed originally for consumer, not professional use. It was a trade off. It was much cheaper than the pro equivalent. (Just like Portastudio used cassettes compared to pro's using reel to reel) I made that point myself.

Did ADAT sound like crap? I doubt it. I believe the converters in ADAT machines (and we know that the converters are the critical item in the sound quality) could be quite good. The tape only stored the data. And I guess that's why people like your friend used the ADAT machine in later years just for the converters. Why use the converters if they sounded like crap?

I can only guess the repeated shuttling back and forward of the tape, which was much thinner than standard reel to reel tape, the much more complicated tape path with a fast spinning and fast wearing head drum, and the need for great care in keeping the mechanism clean and well maintained, all led to some degree of disappointment.

But didnt these guys already have familiarity with VHS home video which had been out for a long time? Didnt they already know it was a consumer format, which was a compromise compared to pro video gear and standards?

Wouldnt it be fairer to compare apples with apples?

Cheers Tim
 
Did ADAT sound like crap? I doubt it. I believe the converters in ADAT machines (and we know that the converters are the critical item in the sound quality) could be quite good. The tape only stored the data. And I guess that's why people like your friend used the ADAT machine in later years just for the converters. Why use the converters if they sounded like crap?

Well, lets just say that the 16 bit converters on the 1st Adat's did not sound as good as the old MSR16S. My friend was using them but as I said only for monitoring, he was not recording through them, and that was because back then it was expensive to set up AD/DA converters, he had a top shelf AD converter to get the sound in. I do believe that things got better as the later models come out, the Tascam DA88 was a far better machine, in fact my old Tascam Dat machines sounded pretty good for 16bit, as that's what we had to mix to back then unless it was also tape.

As others have said, I would only buy a Adat if we needed to transfer an old project.

Alan.
 
Beck you know very well, digital is not harsh. With digital, what goes in is what comes out. How can neutrality be harsh?

What you call harsh is the absence of your beloved analog tape distortion. You may as well call every microphone, every preamp, every vocalist and musical instrument in the world "harsh" because they "dont sound like analog tape"
As you once said, "better than live" And that's the trouble with real voices, real instruments. They just dont sound like analog tape...

No, wrong again my friend. If you don't know that I genuinely think digital is harsh and why I think it is by now, talking to you is like talking to the air. I've said many times that it's not simply a matter of analog adding something, but also digital adding something objectionable. Tim, your understanding of the formats in question is wholly lacking of technical insight. When you insist that “what goes in is what comes out” with digital, you're simply repeating age-old urban legend that started as marketing hype decades ago. That theory has never applied to anything but a hypothetical ideal digital system that has never actually existed. It is the greatest irony that you regularly come here treating those of us with a penchant for analog as being out of touch and outdated, when your ideas about digital have been abandoned decades ago by informed and experienced engineers. You're living in the past when digital marketing hype made big promises that in the intervening years have never been made good.

If what comes out of a digital recorder is exactly what goes in, then why do people argue incessantly over which is the best converter, the best DAW interface, etc? I’ll tell you why. Because they all have different sonic characteristics that lead people to prefer one over another. I have my favorite DAW interface that I think beats the pants off of models many times its price and many years newer. Some are made better than others. Some deal with upper mid and high frequencies better than others, where the sense of cold and harsh lives in the digital world. Which bit depth and resolution is better, Tim? 16/44.1? According to the “what goes in” myth it is. So why should we need 20/48 or 24/48 or 24/96, etc? We wouldn’t, now would we?

In the 90's ADAT was a huge success because now for $12,000 (the cost of three 8 track ADAT machines) a small project studio could do high quality 24 track digital at a fraction of the cost of the big pro digital machines like the Sony PCM 3324 at $150,000.

"Analog has outlived ADAT".
No, digital ADAT died because by the late 90's better digital HDD's came along. Digital tape was supplanted by digital HDD's.

I lived through ADAT. It was the new technology of my day and I was as excited about it as anyone else. However, it was a maintenance nightmare, was short-lived mechanically like a VCR and ate tapes for lunch, resulting in permanent data loss of biblical proportions. I didn’t say analog killed ADAT. I said analog has outlived it. That is, analog machines much older than ADAT are still functioning as they always have, while ADATs are in landfills by the thousands totally unusable.

From where we are today it's easy to take a cheap swipe at ADAT but it was the prosumer forerunner of HDD based recording which the vast majority of users today take for granted.

First of all, stop trying to give me history lessons about the progress of recording technology of any kind. If people want to know anything about that topic they ask me. I was there, experimenting and experiencing, and doing it right, with full grasp of all the technology at my disposal. As for ADAT in particular, it has nothing to do with taking a swipe (though I understand that would you look at the issue that way).

My input has everything to do with being a responsible member and steering people away from a dead technology that would cost people lots of wasted time and money to learn the hard lessons first hand. The only reason to acquire an ADAT today, if you can find one in good working condition, is if you had tapes or dealt with clients who had ADAT tapes that needed to transfer them to another format. Many of us here have been there and done that. That’s one of the reasons we’re here… to answer questions from being there… many, many years of experience with the technologies in question. Unlike you, I don’t answer the question if I don’t know anything about it. When I do answer a question you can bet you’ll get an informed answer.
 
Well, lets just say that the 16 bit converters on the 1st Adat's did not sound as good as the old MSR16S. My friend was using them but as I said only for monitoring, he was not recording through them, and that was because back then it was expensive to set up AD/DA converters, he had a top shelf AD converter to get the sound in. I do believe that things got better as the later models come out, the Tascam DA88 was a far better machine, in fact my old Tascam Dat machines sounded pretty good for 16bit, as that's what we had to mix to back then unless it was also tape.

As others have said, I would only buy a Adat if we needed to transfer an old project.

Alan.

Ditto Alan. I would only have one for transferring old ADAT tapes. Certainly wouldnt recommend someone get into them these days when there are so much better products available.
 
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