OH placement

S

sirslurpee

What does THIS button do?
I can't seem to find this anywhere.. searching online and the forums.. so I figure I'll ask...

Now that I have gotten my drums sounding a little better in the room, I want to try to mic them again.. but I noticed something when I was surfing MSHilarious' site.. I was listening to clips from the MSH-1's as overheads and I couldn't believe what I heard. When I track my overheads, its very thin sounding. It seems like the toms don't cut through, I can barely hear the kick, and the snare is really muddy and just mid-range slop. I thought about it, and when I stand near my drum set, it sounds much better a little ways in front. Can I use an XY overhead setup and place it in front a little ways? How far in front of my drums should my overheads be? and with a spaced pair, should I place them further behind to pick up the kick sound? It seems like I am micing over top of the bass drum and no sound is making it to the OHs except for reflections.. at least, that is what I'm thinking...
 
There are a bajillion ways to mic a kit, including overhead placement. I've really become enamored with the "recorderman" method, as I feel it gives a nice image of the kit with good snare and toms (I close mic the kick and usually the snare in addition to the recorderman overheads). There is absolutely nothing wrong with placing your oh/room mics out in front of the kit, though. Put them wherever they sound best and give you the sound/image you're looking for.
 
I put mine about 10" in front and 18"-24" above the front most cymbals. The OH's pick up the cymbals more than anything and I close mic each drum. The hi-hat finds its way into the mic on the bottom of my snare.
 
One of the drum set clips on the Naiant site is mine, and I used the mics as room mics, not overheads.
 
MadAudio - he said that it was your clip.. I didn't know they were room mics I was under the impression they were overheads. They sound damn good though. Everything is full and has a good balance between each individual instrument... I kind of want to copy that sort of sound and add in the close-mics just for a little more punch.
 
I have some MSH mics, and even though I don't know how to play drums, I set them up as OH's and tried them out. I think they capture a really good sound, considering.
Drums

I had just cleaned my room, and moved the drums, and stuck the mic stand right behind me, about 6 feet up, mics pointing down a bit toward the Toms.

BTW...I've never hit a drum before last week, so the playing is nothing, just the sounds it recorded. I use a DMP3 for a pre.
 
L mandrake said:
Yes, it did help...but just to clarify..You put your OH's just on the edge or a few inches above Lake Eerie??? :confused:
Click to expand...

Dude, I can't move OH for nothing! It just stays where it is.
 
One big thing with OH's is the height. I put mine about 5 feet over the snare. This gives a pretty good balance between the drums and the cymbals. Lower will give you more cymbals in the OH's.

Here is a 128mp3 where the drums are about 80% coming thru just the OH's. (just OH's, snare and kick were miced - edit - and room mics - oops :) )

http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=6590
 
I mic the crashes close. About 15-25 inches above each cymbal, and usually at a slight axis. Having them at a slight axis helps keep the harsh overtones out that some cymbals can generate.

Ride and High hats get a mic. Ride gets mic'd from underneath, and hats over the top about 12in up and facing away from the snare.

If there are splashes and chinas they get a mic too... 12-18 inches above the cymbal.

You get aLOT of seperation and panning control doing it this way.
Which works for me.
 
xfinsterx said:
I mic the crashes close. About 15-25 inches above each cymbal, and usually at a slight axis. Having them at a slight axis helps keep the harsh overtones out that some cymbals can generate.

Ride and High hats get a mic. Ride gets mic'd from underneath, and hats over the top about 12in up and facing away from the snare.

If there are splashes and chinas they get a mic too... 12-18 inches above the cymbal.

You get aLOT of seperation and panning control doing it this way.
Which works for me.
Click to expand...

Don't you get a lot of bleed from the rest of the drums and phase issues?
 
xfinsterx said:
I mic the crashes close. About 15-25 inches above each cymbal, and usually at a slight axis. Having them at a slight axis helps keep the harsh overtones out that some cymbals can generate.

Ride and High hats get a mic. Ride gets mic'd from underneath, and hats over the top about 12in up and facing away from the snare.

If there are splashes and chinas they get a mic too... 12-18 inches above the cymbal.

You get aLOT of seperation and panning control doing it this way.
Which works for me.
Click to expand...


How do you deal with all the phasing?

edit - oops I didn't see that the question was already asked. Does seem like it would blur the soundstage more than the additional benefit of being able to pan each cymbal.
 
Not all mic's are in play during the course of the song.

For instance if the drummer crash rides during the chorus, the ride, hat, an china get muted, or faded down.

Also, i intentionally mic closely as not to get the drums in the cymbal mics....i want the cymbal only really. I makes triggering much easier. For what i do drum bleed into the overheads is bad news.

Lots of seperation and control. Ive never had any phasing issues.

Heres an example.



No phase. and when you listen you can hear what i mean.

Good solid seperation between the cymbals.

I like it that way.

Some ppl dont, and thats cool too, theres always the bonham thing! :D
 
xfinsterx said:
Not all mic's are in play during the course of the song.

For instance if the drummer crash rides during the chorus, the ride, hat, an china get muted, or faded down.

Also, i intentionally mic closely as not to get the drums in the cymbal mics....i want the cymbal only really. I makes triggering much easier. For what i do drum bleed into the overheads is bad news.

Lots of seperation and control. Ive never had any phasing issues.

Heres an example.



No phase. and when you listen you can hear what i mean.

Good solid seperation between the cymbals.

I like it that way.

Some ppl dont, and thats cool too, theres always the bonham thing! :D
Click to expand...


So, no traditional OH's at all? Just the close mic'd cymbals?

That sample sounds FANTASTIC, although my only nitpick would be the cymbals are a little off to me, but, I just listened to several heavy bands I have on the comp here (Pantera, Godsmack, Helmet and MegaDeth - yes, I know, I am OLD), and you actually have a very similar cymbal sound, so it must be correct for the genre, and I don't know what I am talking about. :)
 
The cool thing about close micing is that if your room sucks, (and mine does) it takes the room out of the equasion practicly.

Man all this overhead talk.....

Its really all so subjective ya'know?

There's your way... there's my way....(lol)

There the glyn John's, the X/Y, frikin A/B, Close Mic'd, mono overhead, spaced far pair--- blah blah etc etc...haha.

I just figured id give the guy that asked the question another angle to look at his problem from.

Peace.
 
So no OH's? You didn't really say, So I assume, that there aren't.

I will say, I just listened to about a dozen commercial bands songs now, and you hang with them, and in fact, sound better than most! Seriously badass!

I will have to try your way out......

G-
 
NL5 said:
So no OH's? You didn't really say, So I assume, that there aren't.

I will say, I just listened to about a dozen commercial bands songs now, and you hang with them, and in fact, sound better than most! Seriously badass!

I will have to try your way out......

G-
Click to expand...

What does traditional mean to you??

A/B??
 
NL5 said:
So no OH's? You didn't really say, So I assume, that there aren't.

I will say, I just listened to about a dozen commercial bands songs now, and you hang with them, and in fact, sound better than most! Seriously badass!

I will have to try your way out......

G-
Click to expand...

Heres a pic of what it usually looks like.

( not my studio....i wish!! )

Drumkit_1.jpg
 
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