Odd Switcher Pedal........

[andydeedpoll]

Hi there,

A band member and myself are looking for/looking to build a slightly odd switcher pedal. We'd like to be able to go from a 'normal' setup, of a Vocal mic running to the PA and his guitar running to his amplifier (through his effects) to the vocal mic being run through the effects, and his guitar either not running or running straight to his amp, without the use of his effects. Can anyone think of a way that this might be possible? And any problems we're going to run into in the process? (I'd like more solutions than problems... haha.)

Thanks for any help,

Andrew.

 

[montage]

I think you want to employ the use of a mixer somehow, rather than a switch.

 

[andydeedpoll]

I think you want to employ the use of a mixer somehow, rather than a switch.

Could you explain that further please? That's a completely new idea for a solution, and a mixer could probably be used in any number of ways ... Hehe.

Andrew.

 

[SHEPPARDB.]

Hi there,

A band member and myself are looking for/looking to build a slightly odd switcher pedal. We'd like to be able to go from a 'normal' setup, of a Vocal mic running to the PA and his guitar running to his amplifier (through his effects) to the vocal mic being run through the effects, and his guitar either not running or running straight to his amp, without the use of his effects. Can anyone think of a way that this might be possible? And any problems we're going to run into in the process? (I'd like more solutions than problems... haha.)

Thanks for any help,

Andrew.

I can think of a couple of ways to do it but I'm not sure I want to elaborate.
There are much better ways to add effects to a vocal mic.

 

[ggunn]

Hi there,

A band member and myself are looking for/looking to build a slightly odd switcher pedal. We'd like to be able to go from a 'normal' setup, of a Vocal mic running to the PA and his guitar running to his amplifier (through his effects) to the vocal mic being run through the effects, and his guitar either not running or running straight to his amp, without the use of his effects. Can anyone think of a way that this might be possible? And any problems we're going to run into in the process? (I'd like more solutions than problems... haha.)

Thanks for any help,

Andrew.

My advice is to abandon this idea and get some effects for the PA. Trying to share effects between the guitar player and the vocalist will be (IMO, of course) more trouble than it's worth.

 

[andydeedpoll]

My advice is to abandon this idea and get some effects for the PA. Trying to share effects between the guitar player and the vocalist will be (IMO, of course) more trouble than it's worth.

Part of me agrees... It'd just be an expensive thing to do for one/two songs in a set. None of us can afford to buy Another Whammy Pedal, Delay and Reverb Pedal for one vocalist for one song when we're only just beginning to gig. We have friends who can think their way around electronics and things, who'll be happy to help put something together. Can anyone think of any specific things we might need to work around? If this doesn't work in rehearsals, or is clearly going to have problems, then we obviously won't try it live. But we're not kidding ourselves we know it might not work!

Thanks,

Andrew.

 

[ggunn]

Part of me agrees... It'd just be an expensive thing to do for one/two songs in a set. None of us can afford to buy Another Whammy Pedal, Delay and Reverb Pedal for one vocalist for one song when we're only just beginning to gig. We have friends who can think their way around electronics and things, who'll be happy to help put something together. Can anyone think of any specific things we might need to work around? If this doesn't work in rehearsals, or is clearly going to have problems, then we obviously won't try it live. But we're not kidding ourselves we know it might not work!

Thanks,

Andrew.

OK, here are some things I think you'll have to deal with:

Impedance: Your mics are probably low impedance balanced, and your guitar is high impedance unbalanced. You will have to convert the mic line to Hi Z (to run it directly into the effects) or take a Hi Z line signal from the mixing board.

Routing: How are you going to get the signal out of the PA, to the effects, and back into the PA? You could use an insertion point, if your PA has them, but whatever switching mech you use has to short the input to the output when you aren't going sending the mic signal through it so that you don't interrupt the signal.

Levels: A guitar generates an instrument level signal, and any vocal signal from the PA will be line level.

Switching: To switch the guitar out of the effects and to patch some sort of vocal routing through the same effects is going to take a 4PDT switch or two DPDT's that you'd have to hit together.

Good luck!

 

[e-man]

how 'bout a cheap high impedance mic from radio shack run into an a/b box with the mic and guitar as inputs and the out run to the pedals. set the mic up so the lead singer can go to it easily, stomp the a/b switch and go.

having a second mic for the one or two songs shouldn't be an issue. the cheap sound quality of the mic shouldn't be too big a deal either.

just a thought.

later...

 

[ggunn]

how 'bout a cheap high impedance mic from radio shack run into an a/b box with the mic and guitar as inputs and the out run to the pedals. set the mic up so the lead singer can go to it easily, stomp the a/b switch and go.

having a second mic for the one or two songs shouldn't be an issue. the cheap sound quality of the mic shouldn't be too big a deal either.

just a thought.

later...

And let the vocals go through the mic'ed guitar amp? I think that's a great idea, but watch out for feedback.

 

[andydeedpoll]

And let the vocals go through the mic'ed guitar amp? I think that's a great idea, but watch out for feedback.

Is that a serious option? Sorry, I use sarcasm quite a lot on the internet, and can never tell if someone else is using it, haha. Is there any damage that could be done to the amp/effects by doing that? Running a microphone into the effects and then into the guitar amp? (I'm using a Peavey Classic 30, and my other guitarist is looking into getting a new amp, so I couldn't tell you what he'd be using yet - we haven't decided who's effects we'd want to try and use yet...) That'd be a Much easier way of sorting things out if it would work ok!

Thanks,

Andrew.

 

[omo]

how 'bout a cheap high impedance mic from radio shack run into an a/b box with the mic and guitar as inputs and the out run to the pedals. set the mic up so the lead singer can go to it easily, stomp the a/b switch and go.

having a second mic for the one or two songs shouldn't be an issue. the cheap sound quality of the mic shouldn't be too big a deal either.

just a thought.

later...

Houston, we have a solution.

 

[ggunn]

Is that a serious option? Sorry, I use sarcasm quite a lot on the internet, and can never tell if someone else is using it, haha. Is there any damage that could be done to the amp/effects by doing that? Running a microphone into the effects and then into the guitar amp? (I'm using a Peavey Classic 30, and my other guitarist is looking into getting a new amp, so I couldn't tell you what he'd be using yet - we haven't decided who's effects we'd want to try and use yet...) That'd be a Much easier way of sorting things out if it would work ok!

Thanks,

Andrew.

No, I wasn't being sarcastic... this time. When I am, though, I always try to indicate it so that it's clear what I am doing.

If what you are going for is an extreme effect, then I think this would work. It won't hurt anything, anyway, except maybe your ears if it goes into shrieking feedback, which it may or may not do, depending on how loud it is and how extreme the effects are.

 

[andydeedpoll]

Sorry to be a pain. So the pedals are looking for a high impedance input, right? Is there such a thing as an impedance converter? If it was possible to use the same vocal mic that would be useful.

Just sort of musing on different possibilities here!

The effects were going to include delay and Digitech Whammy style pitch shifting, as well as maybe using a Kaoss Pad.

Thanks!

Andrew.

 

[andydeedpoll]

Sorry to double post - would something like http://www.shure.co.uk/ProAudio/Products/ShureProducts/Accessories/uk_pro_A95UF_content solve any problems due to impedance?

Andrew.

 

[ggunn]

Sorry to be a pain. So the pedals are looking for a high impedance input, right? Is there such a thing as an impedance converter? If it was possible to use the same vocal mic that would be useful.

Well, shure, I mean, sure. ;^) The thing is, though, that you want to keep things as simple as you can, right? Your guitar rig has to have high impedance, and your PA probably wants to receive low Z. If the switching is on a low Z mic line, then you've got more wires and therefore more complicated switching to deal with.

Be prepared; any way you do this is going to be a bit of a pain and involve some compromises. I hope it's worth it. I like the idea of a separate mic (either high Z or converted to high Z) with an A/B switch going into the guitar amp. Simpler is better.

If you have to use the same mic, and it's low Z, and it has to go through the PA, and the guitar player has to play (sans effects, of course) at the same time, then you could do it with two true bypass switches, two impedance (balanced/unbalanced) matching transformers, two Y connectors, and lots of cables.

Here's how:

Mic => low to high Z conversion => bypass switch #1 =>high to low Z conversion => PA.

Guitar => bypass switch #2 => amp.

Y together the sidechain outputs of both bypass switches into the input of the effects chain and send the output of the effects chain through a Y into the sidechain inputs of both bypass switches.

You have 4 switching conditions:

1) Both switches bypassed - neither the guitar nor the mic gets effects.

2) Mic switch sidechained, guitar switch bypassed - mic gets effects through PA.

3) Mic switch bypassed, guitar switch sidechained - guitar gets effects through amp.

4) Both switches sidechained - DANGER! Both mic and guitar get effects, sent through both PA and amp. It wouldn't damage anything, but it could result in massive feedback of the mic through the guitar amp.

Good luck!