O-scope connection?

mamm7215

Member
Hey all, I tried to set up an oscilloscope to test the azimuth on my rec/repro head on my Tascam TSR-8. I'm a little confused though. I was using a Fluke digital scopemeter. My manual says to hook up to 2 channel outputs (2&7). Fine. I'm not sure about the connection. The manual diagram shows the o-scope horizontal measure being hooked to one channel and the vertical to another. My scope has 2 channels, A & B. Both channels have 2 connections-signal and reference/ground. Do I hook ch.A reference to the hot of one TSR-8 output with the ground to the rca shell and the same for the B channel on another output or do I just use 1 scope channel with the reference on one output and the ground on another? I tried the first method briefly but just got 2 sine waves, one for each channel. I couldn't generate any of the diagrams of what to look for in my manual regarding in phase or 45 or 90 or 180 out.
 
Does your 'scope have an X/Y mode? If not, you're going to have a problem :(

**EDIT**
To clarify, yes you connect one channel to A, the other to B. But you must have the 'scope in the right display mode for it to work.

**EDIT EDIT**
Which model of Fluke is it? Looking at their site, the 190 series can do this, but the 120 series can't.
 
It is a 199, I don't see anything in the manual about x-y mode though.
In the specification PDF, it says "Waveform Mathematics: A+B, A-B, A*B, all with user selectable scaling of resultant; A versus B (X-Y-mode); Frequency Spectrum using FFT analysis (190C only)."

...so they might refer to it as 'A vs B' mode or something.

**EDIT**

Just checked the PDF manual. See page 19/20.
Apparently you do this:

*Press Scope
*Press F4
*Select 'Waveform', 'Mathematics' and then 'A vs B'.
 
K, I just checked my manual and scope, this one doesn't have the waveform mathematics capability. D'oh, I'll have to find one that does. Thanks.
 
Lissajous figures

Just to chime in and add to the confusion.....

The name of the curve that we see when doing alignment is (a) "Lissajous figure".

When the ratio of x to y is 1 we get an ellipse with the phase offset (angle of head mis-adjustment) setting how full the ellipse is. Circle to line where a line is no phase offset.


Quoting wikipedia:

The appearance of the figure is highly sensitive to the ratio a/b. For a ratio of 1, the figure is an ellipse, with special cases including circles (A = B, δ = π/2 radians) and lines (δ = 0).

Regards
 
Nope, this model's firmware is too old to upgrade. There is an upgrade that will give me the proper function, but it would be a hardware upgrade, not a flash software one...
 
I got all excited except my E-Mu card won't work as it's ASIO drivers, they don't play nice with wave/wdm so I couldn't get the scope to work. I have one at work that will do x-y
 
Oh my, where to start?

Do you have reason to believe the play head azimuth is out? If so, by a small or large amount?
The only reason to get azimuth spot on standard is if you are expecting to play your tapes on another machine, or to play theirs on yours. Normally, for home recordists that's unlikely, especially these days. Apart from that there will be no sonic improvement in having your machine aligned perfectly to test tape azimuth standard. More important to have record and play heads aligned to each other, even if absolute azimuth is not spot on.

Even if for perfection's sake you still want to adjust the azimuth from what it now is, and if the head has a tape wear groove, the standard advice is, dont until you relap or replace the head. After that you should certainly adjust azimuth. Tape wear grooves are like tram tracks. They lock the tape into tracking one way. You cant reliably change the azimuth even if you wanted to.
OTOH your heads may have recessed slots at the edges of the tape path, and possibly in that case it would be OK to readjust azimuth, so long as the tape wear hasnt got down to the level of the bottom of the slots and/or the tape never was centred properly and it has left a ridge on one edge anyway. In that case, relap or replace.

A scope/cro/ is NOT essential for azimuth alignment. You can do it quite reliably with a meter that can handle the azimuth frequency, often even the machine's own VU's. Adjust coarsely first for maximum deflection on all channels. Then sum say channels 2 and 7 and very carefully adjust a small amount either side of this for the maximum average reading. This last adjustment will be very critical, but will be of benefit if you ever record tracks which have the same material recorded on them and you sum them.

You can get into cro's, lissajous figures, X-Y inputs if you like but you will likely get no better result, just pretty pictures on a screen. You can even use a single trace cro and just sum tracks 2 and 7 into that one channel. But you dont even need a cro at all.

But standard advice is if the head is worn , dont even touch the azimuth.

Or at least just in case the machine's azimuth has been changed since the wear groove was formed and you just want it to play better, adjust azimuth for the best sound by aligning back to the wear groove.

I feel more emphasis here should be placed on tape head condition. It's pointless spending lots of time and money on aligning a machine unless the heads are in good nick in the first place.

Good luck, Tim
 
Wow, good info Tim. Thanks. All indications are that the heads are in great shape on this machine. There are the 2 recessed guide slots at the path edges. No excess wear at all, no edge ridges, etc. I have no reason or desire to transfer my tapes to another deck, this is for my internal studio use only so I'm relieved to get advice to leave it well enough alone. The only question, as above is the tape wear path. A little more worn at the bottom of the head, as you look at the deck laying down. And I mean a LITTLE, like I said, a hair width or two difference. I'll do all my final adjustments when I get my MRL test tape and demagnetizer, should be here today or tomorrow.
Thanks again.
 
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