Nut vs. fret

crazydoc

crazydoc

Master Baiter
This may have been discussed, but I haven't seen it.

Several of my cheaper guitars have a fret placed directly after the nut, over which the strings pass after emerging from the nut grooves. This fret acts to define the neck end of the string length, instead of the nut doing this as is usual. I can see that the advantage of this is that the bottoms of all the strings are at the same level (or on the same radius if the fretboard is curved), obviating any necessity of nut groove depth filing/adjustment, as long as the depth is lower then that of the fret.

The disadvantage would be that no adjustment is possible, if you want different string heights above the fretboard.

Anyone know if this method of construction makes any difference in the tone or other qualities of the guitar?
 
Not only cheap guitars use zero-fret. I have seen some really pricey guitars that use it also. I actually like the feel of zero fret guitars quite alot. Seems you can get action way low with the proper fret work.

H2H
 
Carvin used to do zero frets. As has been pointed out, it gives near perfect string height at that end and you can get great action if the rest of the neck is good. You probably give up a bit on sustain since the string's not as clamped.
 
My 68' Gretsch Anniversary has one. It works great! I've had it since about 79'. Plays fantastic and it's NEVER had a truss rod adjustment or fret work done. I suppose if you wanted a different "feel" , you could have a taller fret and nut installed. It wouldn't be a difficult thing to do for a qualified tech.
 
Hard2Hear said:
Not only cheap guitars use zero-fret. I have seen some really pricey guitars that use it also. I actually like the feel of zero fret guitars quite alot. Seems you can get action way low with the proper fret work.

H2H
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as a matter of fact, this "zero fret" was invented by GRETSCH in the late 50ies ... and most of the GRETSCHES still use it today ... and you probably know the price of GRETSCHes :D

def. one of the smarter inventions - I love the Fret0

cheers
alfred
 
EddieRay said:
I've never been clear on the need for a zero fret either. My Ampeg AMB1 bass has one and I've even seen 'em on high-end fretless basses.
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Ok, a frettless bass with a zero fret. Isn't that an oxy-moron.

Yet another of life's mysteries to ponder.......
 
My 1963 Gretsch Chet Atkins Country Gent has a zero fret. I think they were popular for cheaper guitars because it didn't take as long to set the nut up on one, and you could achieve fairly low action. I don't know that they have any other overwhelming advantage. Gretsch, in its day, was always trying new things and tarting up their gits to differentiate them from Gibson (padded backs, half-moon fingerboard inlays, mutes) and the zero fret was no doubt just one more thing salesmen could point to and say "this is what makes a Gretsch better than Brand X." I don't know that I have another guitar with one, but I've had a couple of offshore cheapos that did.
 
alot of early (pre Gibson) Epiphones had zero fret, too. I have played on 1 old Epi acoustic and an old hollow body that body had zero frets.

Gretsch, yeah, I thought that but I wasn't informed enough to be sure enough to say it. They are great, too.

H2H
 
The basic reason to use a zero fret is that it makes setup easier, which is why it is so common on cheap guitars (and no, I do not mean that only cheap guitars have zero frets, but that is where they are most common). Adjusting the nut on a zero fret guitar is just a matter of making sure it is spaced right, and then getting it low enough that the string rides solidly on the zero fret.

Probably the main reason you don't see them on high end guitars is becauseit is not traditional, which is to say, that is not how Martin does it. And though there are some high end builders who use zero frets, they are in the minority as it is something that most buyers will look at and say, "oh, that's a cheap guitar." It does have some advantages though, aside from the ease of setup (not a better setup, just easier). For one thing, the tone of a open string on a zero fret gutiar is closer to the sound of a fretted string. Wither or not this is a good thing is personal opinion. I don't like it, but that is a least in part because I am used to open strings sounding different. Of course, they still do, as you do not have this big meaty finger right there to suck out all the kinetic energy from the string, but that is a different issue all together. Intonation can be tricky with a zero fret guitar, however, as the contact point gets moved to the theoretical point, and the way most builders work, the distance between the nut and the first fret is slightly shorter than the theoretical distance (which is a good thing for reasons I do not really want to get into here, but do a search for Buzz Feitein and you will begin to understand it, and no I am not endorsing the Buzz Feitein system, as the guy is a lunitic who has no fucking clue what he is talking about, but he did figure out on his own some basic concepts which everyone else in the world already understood). (Wow, quite the sentence there). At any rate, without some forethought, zero frets can be a cause of some intonation problems, particularly in the first position, but then they also all but automatically take care of some other first position intonation problems.

Fuck it, I am too damn tired right now.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
AlfredB said:
as a matter of fact, this "zero fret" was invented by GRETSCH in the late 50ies ... and most of the GRETSCHES still use it today ... and you probably know the price of GRETSCHes :D

def. one of the smarter inventions - I love the Fret0

cheers
alfred
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WRONG

I have seen plenty guitars from 1900 (give or take a few decades) which have zero frets. NEVER believe anyone when they say they have "invented" something for guitar. They are almost always wrong (even Leo Fender was copying Bigsby, and Bigsby was copying Rickenbacker, which got a lot of ideas from...)

It's all been done before, trust me.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
AlfredB said:
as a matter of fact, this "zero fret" was invented by GRETSCH in the late 50ies ... and most of the GRETSCHES still use it today ... and you probably know the price of GRETSCHes :D

def. one of the smarter inventions - I love the Fret0

cheers
alfred
Click to expand...
The zero fret goes back way before that, my first guitar for my 11th. birthday in 1955 was a german hofner and it had a zero fret as did my dad's guitar in the 1930's.
 
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