Now I Understand

Sorted. Went to Black viper this morning and re-checked all my optimization. Hit SeaTools for a check on all the drives. Realized that it was only this new song that would not play in Reason. Had to be a problem in Reason. Checked the settings and found out it was in 88.2 mode instead of 44.1. Somehow, when I brought the new snare track in from Reaper, it reset...
New Mix: Went faders down and mixed to the master at parity. I can hear the tinkling of the high piano. I can hear the vocals. The guitars may be a bit loud, still. Effects are where I want them. Tried a higher snare with a some tail. All the drums are there...snare might be a scoche too high. I pushed the middle section a bit into a limiter, but the acoustic parts are not touching it.

 
Okay. Hopefully final mix: Fiddled with a lot of automation to get the vocals and the bass and the piano to play well together. Pulled the mid guitar section back even more and I like it where it is now. Pulled the snare back just a tad. Got a little more of the ducking off the echo so it's at least noticeable that it exists DURING the vocals...didn't change wet/dry, so the betweens are still good.
I really do like the new snare, even if others might find it "fake". Still have a long way to go to find good samples in SSD4. From the compliments I've gotten, it seems I've found some winners in Amplitube. :)

Just looking at the waveform, I can see this has a lot less "push" into the limiter. No more "bullet".

 
Man, this is night and day from the first mix to this one. It sounds fantastic compared to how it started. Good job. I don't mind the snare at all either.
 
Glad to hear it! It wasn't as hard a battle as some of my earlier mixes, but I think I started with better tracks, and I'm seeing that that makes a HUGE difference.
 
Sorry, late to the game

Sorry I'm so late to hear this but I read the entire thread and learned a lot. I missed some of the in-between tracks but #6 is a drastic improvement. I know it's all about taste and production but I would like to hear the transition from the acoustic to the electric sections blend a little smoother. Seems like the brightness just stops. That may be just the way you wanted it. My 2 cents worth. Loved the lyrics included so I could follow the vocal and words first. I get the theme and can see you rocking the sanctuary!
Good songs only get better!
P.S. At first I thought someone was going to suggest you drop the tracks and have a mix party but you took advice and hung in till you got it right. Keep 'em coming.
 
ronhar said:
Sorry I'm so late to hear this but I read the entire thread and learned a lot. I missed some of the in-between tracks but #6 is a drastic improvement. I know it's all about taste and production but I would like to hear the transition from the acoustic to the electric sections blend a little smoother. Seems like the brightness just stops. That may be just the way you wanted it. My 2 cents worth. Loved the lyrics included so I could follow the vocal and words first. I get the theme and can see you rocking the sanctuary!
Good songs only get better!
P.S. At first I thought someone was going to suggest you drop the tracks and have a mix party but you took advice and hung in till you got it right. Keep 'em coming.
Click to expand...

Thanks! As far as the P.S. goes. I'm mostly in this as a songwriter. The more I learn about engineering and mixing and mastering, the better my tracks sound. I wouldn't object to others setting my stems in order, but I'd want to know how things were done, so I can learn.

I also have a problem with the way the mid section takes in. It just needs to completely bowl you off your feet like it did in the first few mixes, but it doesn't anymore. What you say about the brightness is part of it. I've pulled back on the overall brightness of the mix, and pulled more out of the acoustics, and it's still fairly overwhelming. Maybe I should put the 12k shelf back on during the mid section. But also the electric guitars pulled so far back and the loss of the vocal effect going into it have really neutered that middle section. Still working on it.

But I'm really happy with the acoustic sections, now as well as how the end section comes in on the tail of the mid. I'd like it to kind of fade in (say, start at -12dB and run up to 0 over the course of those two bars without vocal...)
 
BroKen_H said:
Okay. Hopefully final mix: Fiddled with a lot of automation to get the vocals and the bass and the piano to play well together. Pulled the mid guitar section back even more and I like it where it is now. Pulled the snare back just a tad. Got a little more of the ducking off the echo so it's at least noticeable that it exists DURING the vocals...didn't change wet/dry, so the betweens are still good.
I really do like the new snare, even if others might find it "fake". Still have a long way to go to find good samples in SSD4. From the compliments I've gotten, it seems I've found some winners in Amplitube. :)

Just looking at the waveform, I can see this has a lot less "push" into the limiter. No more "bullet".

Click to expand...

I finally got a chance to actually sit down and have a listen. Much much better.

Call this one done, and move on to the next one. Oh, and don't forget to take what you learned with you for the next songs you do.:)

Could this mix be better? Sure. But dont worry about it now. Keep on building your skillset. Revisit it in 6 months or so. What's great will remain so, what's crap will poke out like a pimple on your nose.

Peace out!
 
Hello, didnt listen to all the versions but the first thing i noticed was the reverb on the vocal, surpise no? Can I assume you used the reverb on the insert of your track? That is not wrong (there is no wrong) but that makes the vocal seem more distant, by comparison the guitars had less reverb, correct me if I am wrong.
The thing here is: the more effects (reverb, delay) you put on an insert of a track the less in front it will be which in this case makes the guitars closer to the listener than the vocals and that can never be a good point espescially since you have something to tell. So use the reverb on a aux track so that the reverb is behind the vocal and not on top of it which will make it seem closer but still with all the reverb you want.
Talking about auxes: if you have some serious EQ or compression to do, do it parallel like with the vocals, it will be more subtle that way, if you dont want to be subtle, disregard this.
Hope this helps a bit, it takes time to be a good mixer. Collect all the tips and techniques you can find, try them, dismiss the things that dont work for you but keep the rest in you bag of tricks, one day they all will come together. Good luck.
 
Well, if you heard the whole song, you know that the reverb goes away after the initial part (the confusion) of the song. The reverb/echo was intentional to make things sound muffled, back, and a bit confused...hopefully while still being able to understand the lyric. Everything is done via the aux send. Everything was sent through the same bus to the same reverb and then the wet/dry was automated at the key points in the song on the reverb and the echo. :)
Good idea about parallel eq on the vocals. I've done that in the past and had some really good luck. I'll look into that as there's a lot of 1k in my vocals that has to be pulled out.
 
I really like the acoustic parts of this song it sounds earthy and real, Guitar tones are really sweet to the ears, it reminds me in some part of the Clutch style which i like very much, well done on this one :)
 
Borken, what plug are you using for the vocal delays? They sound very natural and clean. Acoustic sounds great. I think I heard this one a few weeks ago, now that I got to the chorus.
 
I use Reason. Therefore, no plugs. The RE that I'm using for the echo is called "The Echo" and it's way more complicated. It has the normal stuff, like delay (either by time or by sync) feedback, diffusion of the echo signal, various filters (hi/lo pass, etc), but also has it's own ducking built in, plus a full modulation section with LFO, a color section that allows you to variably dirty up the return signal with tube, distortion, overdrive or just a limiter. Takes me a while to dial in a sound on the thing because of all the variables. Glad you like this one.

I already gave my secret away on the acoustic...it's just a Yamaha FG335 run through an MXL 2001 8-10" from the fretboard, 15 degrees off axis toward the sound hole at the 12th fret. I pretty much use that setting for all my acoustic work, but my playing and techniques are improving. :)
 
Triggered does what it says. You can either manually trigger when the echo goes of or send it a signal via CV (on the back of the device) Roll is a really different animal. It allows you to do stutter and repeat on the fly variably! Very cool'
 
Just listened to mix 6 - it was embedded in a quote so I hope I'm getting the latest mix.
The vocals are a little cloudy especially in the first half, I can understand them but could use a bit more clarity for me. Not sure what to recommend as a frequency boost but something. The second half just kicks it up so well, it's perfect. Vocals in that range really sounds great for your voice. It delivers the message incredibly well. The music doesn't need anything as far as I can hear. Levels/mix/choice of instruments is great.
 
Thanks for the listen Gerry. The first part is supposed to be echoy and reverby... a little confuse (ish). Then when the second half hits (at the first "Now I think I understand" with the big cymbal roll, it clears. So, what you're describing is EXACTLY what I wanted it to do. Maybe there should be more clarity to the vocal. Listen to the version in my sig and see if it's better...
 
As curious as I am about the 16,000 comments you've already gotten on this, I ain't gonna read 'em all now. :)

Both stylistically and thematically, this is so far outside my zone, or whatever, you know? I have to respect the effort that must have gone into it though, as it's pretty ambitious. You have a real contrast between the opening section and what follows, but it still flowed pretty nicely, which is probably a mixing challenge in itself. I thought the acoustic guitars sounded very good as did your voice when you got to the heavier, shouty sections about jesus, and you hit those higher registers. Your voice sounded strongest then.

I think this sounds like a step forward for you when I compare it to what I remember of your earlier mixes.

I listened to the mix in your signature...hope that's the most recent one.
 
Really appreciate all the compliments and sincerity. I can read a few things between the lines, but I'm leaving that alone. :)
Actually, there's a nice section in the first two pages that's really worth a read where BTyre gave me some early inspiration, and then Rami, Greg, Steeno and some others really got into the mechanics of why my first mix was crap. Really good read (at least for me). They all really helped the mix, and the sound.
That last mix is beyond what had been commented on, and I'm happy for the comments you made about the transition because it was questionable to me. The transition in mix 6 had gotten so soft there was no push. So I bumped and pushed it a bit to make the difference in the initial thought come back out.
I wish my voice was where it was in my 20s, but I'm starting to think that isn't going to happen unless I start walking 5 miles a day again, doing strengthening exercises and can devote 3-4 hours a day to my voice and lose about 100#...I just don't have the time for most of that, although walking 5 miles a day might help me shed the 100# :laughings:
 
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