Not sure what I need...

C

chisao101

New member
I am in a band with 5 members. We have 3 mics for singing, 2 guitars, 1 bass, and 1 drummer. We plan on getting a 4 piece mic kit for the drums very soon, also.
We are trying to find a way to record our jam sessions and live shows, but we would really like to record each member on separate tracks. We also just lost our PA because it belonged to someone else, and they needed it, so they took it back.

Ok, now to the questions:

What would we need to buy that would allow us to plug everyone in, level out the sound for our jam space (like a sound check) and record each member on their own track using a laptop? Does such an item even exist, that can accomplish this?

I have been reading about mixers and PAs, and it doesn't seem like you can use a PA as a mixer for recording, but I just learned that powered mixers can act as a PA. But can it allow you to record to a laptop, and can it do it with each member being on a separate track?

Obviously, I am extremely new to recording and mixing and all that jazz, but if I could get these questions answered, it would help me decide what item(s) need to be purchased by the band, and how much money we may be looking at spending.

Thanks in advance for any help :)
 
Well, the sort of facilities you want certainly exist but, as the number of inputs you want goes up, so does the complexity and cost.

Basically, you need three things:

First, some ability to split off all you mic and (if any) line level channels prior to the PA mix happening.

Second, a method to convert the analogue splits you have into a digital formal your computer can handle.

Third, software on your computer to handle the multitrack recording (and a computer powerful enough to handle it of course).

For point one (the split) you have a few options. There are multicore connectors (snakes) that will do the split for you--or, if you get the right mixer, you can find one with "direct outs" that let you feed signals from after the pre amps but before the EQ, fader etc. so you can record without compromising on your live mix. Or, with a lot of digital mixers, you can output directly to your computer while mixing live.

For the second point, again there are various options. As mentioned above, there are digital mixers that will do this for you or there are certainly audio interfaces that will take your splits or direct outs and feed them into the computer. Unfortunately, 8 inputs is sort of a cut off point for "simple". Above that, you'll probably have to do something like run 8 channels directly and the rest via some kind of extra link--maybe ADAT digital for example. Note that it's important to sort out point one first--this'll determine whether you need lots of mic pre amps on your interface or will be handling signals already at line level.

Finally, the computer and software. You have tons of options--probably the cheapest would be a programme called Reaper which is very popular here but you'll get lots of different suggestions.

If it was me, I think I'd probably be looking at the digital mixer route which will avoid trying to make all sorts of separate boxes play nicely together. Have a look at the Behringer x32--a lovely board for the money. Or, cheaper, there's the Presonus Studiolive (though I don't personally like it as much as the Behringer or many others.

However, the digital mixer route is only one so you need to really sit down and think about both budget and exactly how you want to work.
 
First of all, thanks for the quick reply.
I'm a complete noob, and I don't really understand about half of what you said...lol

I am good on the computer and software. I use a Behringer Guitar Link with Amplitube and Reaper to record my guitar at home. That is the extent of my recording knowledge, though.

So, I guess I need to learn more about "split off all you mic and (if any) line level channels prior to the PA mix happening" and "convert the analogue splits you have into a digital formal your computer can handle."

But what I'm really looking for is to find one product that can act as both a mixer and a PA, and still has the ability to record to a PC. Does something like that exist, or would I have to use more than one component?
Everyone being on a separate track is ideally what I would like, but I'm not necessarily banking on that. Being a beginner to recording, and also working with a fairly modest budget, I'm looking to see what options are available, and then start pricing out stuff to buy. For example, I have been looking at mixers at Sam Ash's website. There are some mixers with 10 and 16 channels that are well within my price range, and some of them have USB outs on them, so I can record with them. Can these act as a PA as well, so they can power our monitors and speakers, assuming the mixer we get is a powered mixer?

It's just really hard to know what I'm looking for because I have no idea about any of this stuff. I just know how to play a guitar. lol

Thanks again for your answer. I appreciate the help.
 
Be careful when you choose a USB or FireWire mixer to make sure that the computer can record individual channels and not just the final mix. Some do, some don't.

I'm not aware of any powered mixers that have built-in recording capabilities (though they may exist), but if you can't find such a beast, you can always patch a mixer's output into an outboard amp. It's a pain, but that's still probably going to be a heck of a lot easier than trying to find a powered mixer with direct outs on every channel so you can patch it into a standalone audio interface, though, much less setting up such a patch. :)
 
I'd go as far as to say that MOST mixers with USB out (at least the ones at the economy end of the range) only provide a basic stereo mix to the computer. I've named the two cheapest mixers I know that can feed individual channels as opposed to the stereo mix.

Be very suspicious if the mixer is under a thousand bucks or so--it's highly unlikely to feed separate channels down the USB cable.
 
Hi Chis'

As Bobbsy pointed out, the cost past 8 discrete tracks gets prohibitive and many would say that you need at least 4 of those tracks just for the drum kit! But aside from the hardware costs there are other factors.

One problem is "spill". Unless you have a studio where you can close off various instruments with baffles (often called "Gobos") or even separate rooms, I doubt you will get sufficient separation to achieve what you want. Yes, you can DI a lot of gear. Bass is usually a problem and you can "shut him up" but then you will have the complication of headphone links (ANOTHER mixer???) .

But if you think about it, you have got to make a decent "mix" to feed the PA? My money would be on as good a PA mixer as you can afford and a PA rig (or the powered mixer but that might be limiting as an actual mixer for recording) then a good 2 or 4 channel AI (you KNOW I am going to say NI KA6 don't you Bob?!) or something with ADAT for future use.

On a slightly OT point. The PA owner bailed? Now might be a good time to sit down with the band and sort out who owns what and what is shared property? This new rig you are looking to get, who is paying? Get a really solid agreement sorted out. Most band "fall out" over money with women next...Musical differences are a LONG way down the list!

Dave.
 
I know it's been awhile, but thanks for all your help guys. I have been working with the guys and due to me being the only one with an income that allows for equipment purchases, I have decided to turn my den into a makeshift recording studio. This means all equipment is mine, and there are no arguments about who owns what. I have a mackie mixer now, and a presonus interface. I'm just now getting to sound treatments for the room. As far as recording live, I'm still looking into how to do that, but for now (or at least in a couple of weeks) we will be able to record our practice and jam sessions.

Thanks again :)
 
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