Not enough inputs - help! (Not a noob question, either!)

Carny1122

Carny1122

Plugin Whore
Hey guys, so I've run into a bit of a dilemma. I'm starting a new project with some buddies this Saturday, but I have a micing dillemma. I've got an old school *original* Firepod, using Logic Pro 9 as my DAW. I've only got 8 inputs. I need 12 for the drums (2 on snare, 2 on kick, 4 toms, hats, 2 OH's, 1 room). As far as I've been able to come up with, here are my immediate options:

1: Buy a second original Firepod used for about $200, give or take $50; daisy chain this into the first one, giving me 16 inputs. Sounds good.

2: Buy an ADA 8000/Digimax FS/8 channel ADAT preamp unit and borrow my buddy's Motu 8 Pre, lightpipe the ADAT pre into the 8 pre, 16 channels. Voila.

Here are the problems/cons that I've come up with for both.

1: If I buy a second *original* Firepod, I've then got not one, but TWO older interfaces to worry about getting rid of within the next two years or so. I doubt I'd even be able to sell the pair for $200 two years from now, and I'd rather not get stuck with them.

2: If I buy an 8 channel ADAT pre, I can't use it with my Firepod (no ADAT in/out), so I'm stuck with an 8 channel ADAT pre that I can't use whenever I want to.

What would you guys do? Right now, I'm leaning more toward the second Firepod, even if I end up "stuck" with it in two years or whenever I upgrade. I've found a few at GC's and the like for around $200. Push comes to shove, I'll go 8 mics on the drums (1 snare, 1 kick, 4 toms, 2 OH's) and use Logic's replacement to replace the snare and kick sound and put on a decent room 'verb after it's said and done. Right now that's the cheapest option, too... :confused:

Thanks!
 
Carny1122 said:
Hey guys, so I've run into a bit of a dilemma. I'm starting a new project with some buddies this Saturday, but I have a micing dillemma. I've got an old school *original* Firepod, using Logic Pro 9 as my DAW. I've only got 8 inputs. I need 12 for the drums (2 on snare, 2 on kick, 4 toms, hats, 2 OH's, 1 room). As far as I've been able to come up with, here are my immediate options:

1: Buy a second original Firepod used for about $200, give or take $50; daisy chain this into the first one, giving me 16 inputs. Sounds good.

2: Buy an ADA 8000/Digimax FS/8 channel ADAT preamp unit and borrow my buddy's Motu 8 Pre, lightpipe the ADAT pre into the 8 pre, 16 channels. Voila.

Here are the problems/cons that I've come up with for both.

1: If I buy a second *original* Firepod, I've then got not one, but TWO older interfaces to worry about getting rid of within the next two years or so. I doubt I'd even be able to sell the pair for $200 two years from now, and I'd rather not get stuck with them.

2: If I buy an 8 channel ADAT pre, I can't use it with my Firepod (no ADAT in/out), so I'm stuck with an 8 channel ADAT pre that I can't use whenever I want to.

What would you guys do? Right now, I'm leaning more toward the second Firepod, even if I end up "stuck" with it in two years or whenever I upgrade. I've found a few at GC's and the like for around $200. Push comes to shove, I'll go 8 mics on the drums (1 snare, 1 kick, 4 toms, 2 OH's) and use Logic's replacement to replace the snare and kick sound and put on a decent room 'verb after it's said and done. Right now that's the cheapest option, too... :confused:

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Hello..Have you considered submixing ( stereo pair) of some of the drum mics into two channels of your interface..You get an external small mixer (ie.. Mackie, Yammy,etc.) run the drum mics in to the mixer you wanna submix and send that to the two (2) line input channels ( Panned Left/Right) of the interface ( Firepod) ..Only drawback, you have to commit to what you record cause you can't EQ individually ( except on the small mixer before you record)..But....you can do it over til you get it right..!..This is the way it was done back in the day..Actually, the whole drum kit was often mic'ed this way..!..Good luck
 
I did consider this...I've got a Mackie 24.8 that I usually use for the pre's, EQ slightly or HPF, then D.O. into the firepod (I know, I'm degrading the sound by doing this...), and I did consider just taking a buss out for the 2 racks and another buss out for the 2 floor toms, but I don't have room in my car to take it, so that's out of the picture. I think we may just use 1 F.T., then I can double mic the snare as per usual, single mic the kick and put some replacement on it. Hopefully things will work themselves out. Thanks for the tip, though!
 
I need 12 for the drums (2 on snare, 2 on kick, 4 toms, hats, 2 OH's, 1 room)
Click to expand...
If you use 1 snare mic, one kik mic, forget the hi-hat and room mic, that makes 8. Are you sure you need those extra mics?
 
RAMI said:
If you use 1 snare mic, one kik mic, forget the hi-hat and room mic, that makes 8. Are you sure you need those extra mics?
Click to expand...

+1

You could even consolidate on the toms and put a mic in between pairs of toms, so that's 2 less. Then forget the hi-hat and room mic, or some combination of two.
 
Capt Hair said:
+1

You could even consolidate on the toms and put a mic in between pairs of toms, so that's 2 less. Then forget the hi-hat and room mic, or some combination of two.
Click to expand...

I tend to not use a third room mic when you have the 2 overheads...
 
I ended up scrapping the room mic and did 1 snare, 1 kick, 3 toms (convinced him that he didn't really need two floor toms), 2 OH's, and a hi-hat mic, and it turned out pretty well. I'll have to do some doubling with a trigger on the snare because I did top mic only; he wants a super poppy, cracky, hi-tuned snare, so I'll need to work on finding a good sample for that, like a tight-tuned brass snare... Gonna mix them whenever I get some free time this week, perhaps I'll throw it up and let you all make fun of my drum tones! haha
 
Carny1122 said:
1: If I buy a second *original* Firepod, I've then got not one, but TWO older interfaces to worry about getting rid of within the next two years or so. I doubt I'd even be able to sell the pair for $200 two years from now, and I'd rather not get stuck with them.
Click to expand...

I never worry about this, I buy cheap secondhand gear to use, if you use it for 2 years then sell it for half that price again it cost you $0.96 a week and you got the use of it. I have gear that I paid $15,000 and it's now worth $275, I know this cos I just bought another one as a second unit, by the time I come to sell it it will be worth $0 but I use the stuff all the time so I don't care. It's like the person that will not buy that new TV cos the price will come down in a few years so they are still watching a sh#tty TV while all their friends are enjoying their new ones.

If you like the firepod buy the second one and use it.

Alan.
 
Agreed, used gear is much easier to break even with. And if you can score a firepod for 200, do it. It's not hard to unload them for the same amount or near the same amount. I got 200 for mine when I unloaded it.

Unlike new gear where it's guaranteed you will lose money on it.

That being said though...

Having a higher end interface that uses ADAT inputs is definitely nicer since they use DSP for monitoring the digital ins. My profire can monitor up to 18 inputs (analog or digital) and I think the presonus one (firestudio 2626 I think) can monitor all 26 if I remember correctly.

Which is the major downside of chaining 2 firepods together, you can only monitor one firepod at a time.
 
Without getting any new equipment you could lower your inputs by only using 1 kick mic, and if you have a drum replacement programme like drumagog then you can double the kick track at Mixing and add drumagog to one of the tracks. This way you get more control over the kick sound.

You could get rid of the Room mic also. :) Have 1 mic on the top of snare or if you could have 2 mics going into 1 input. Just remember to check for phasing between the 2 snare mics.
Take away hat mic and use OHs to capture hats.

G
 
I have the presonus firestudio tube which has 10 inputs... im in love with the thing.. .maybe buy that if your looking to replace your firepod.

i do this

2 on snare
2 on kick
4 on toms
2 OH

Love my results.
 
Remember that if you're running two different converters, you'll have clocking issues. This may be less of a problem with the two firepods, since they're the same, but you can't dismiss the possibility. My experience with trying to mix heterogeneous units without an external clock (i.e. slaving from one to another), it *never* works without clicks and pops, and that even with an external clock, it's really touchy (i.e., only one sample rate works for all the units at once, etc.).
 
antichef said:
Remember that if you're running two different converters, you'll have clocking issues. This may be less of a problem with the two firepods, since they're the same, but you can't dismiss the possibility. My experience with trying to mix heterogeneous units without an external clock (i.e. slaving from one to another), it *never* works without clicks and pops, and that even with an external clock, it's really touchy (i.e., only one sample rate works for all the units at once, etc.).
Click to expand...

This isn't an issue with hooking to firepods together, the driver sees one large interface this way.

And when you plug in other pres via digital means your supposed to set the clock to something other than internal (whatever your pluging in is usually the clock source). Multiple units and you would use word clock connections.

I've not had any issues with clock on my setup. You know pretty fast when things aren't clocking right, you get all kind of nasty unwanted clicks, pops, and crackles in the recording if it's wrong.
 
antichef said:
My experience with trying to mix heterogeneous units without an external clock (i.e. slaving from one to another), it *never* works without clicks and pops...
Click to expand...

Plus, you have to consider the fact that it wouldn't be a common way to connect things together if it was a reliable way to do it.
 
Guitargodgt said:
This isn't an issue with hooking to firepods together, the driver sees one large interface this way.

And when you plug in other pres via digital means your supposed to set the clock to something other than internal (whatever your pluging in is usually the clock source). Multiple units and you would use word clock connections.

I've not had any issues with clock on my setup. You know pretty fast when things aren't clocking right, you get all kind of nasty unwanted clicks, pops, and crackles in the recording if it's wrong.
Click to expand...


Is this an issue on macs?
I have two different brand interfaces that I'll lump together as an aggregate device. OSX sees that as one device and automatically sets one as the clock source.

I haven't actually used them in a session yet, but it's something I never gave thought to.
 
Steenamaroo said:
Is this an issue on macs?
I have two different brand interfaces that I'll lump together as an aggregate device.
Click to expand...

I could see where that would be an issue because there is no way to tell one or the other what the clock is, IIRC that isn't the way it works with a firepod but I could be wrong (don't remember I havn't had a FP in a long ass time).

Righ now though I'm using a both a toneport UX2 and a Digimax D8 into a profire 2626 without any clock issues.
 
Well, I like the sound of monaural drum micing, but I'd like to have the option of both. With the Sony mic, unless I run into massive amounts of money, is not an option, even to buy another OKTAVA, Is going to be pricey.
 
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