No one critiques metal anymore here :(

I critique almost everything... :D
Now this sweet. Drums and beginning riff are cool. Sure wish I could play like that. Vocals are done well. I need to try something like this. My voice might fit some growling better than when I try and sing. :eek: Riffing is straight up sweet with the drums. Excellent timing. Can't say much about the mix, as it's pretty clean. Nothing seems to step on anything else, soundwise. It's pretty ominous sounding. I likey......
Ed
 
YAY!!! Thanks Ed! I have been hearing some excellent mixes in the forum lately. I am glad one of mine is getting some positive feedback. I guess that means I am learning something from you crazies!! \m/
 
i was always a big fan of your riffs even though i never posted...
the drums are tight but they just take away from the song so much...

i love the vocals...
 
I agree VesuviusJay, you always have some pretty cool stuff. I'm still having some trouble with the drums though. I'd really like to see you put some more time into humanizing them a little. They sound really mechanical and way too consistent. Every hit sounds the same, and the rhythms are a little too stiff. I've heard you say before that you had DFHS. What are you using to program the drums with? If you have a decent MIDI sequencer you should get in there and really mess with those velocities on the drums. Don't use the heavy snare hits every time. On fast little kick drum fills, let the velocity fade a little after the first couple of hits. Keep the cymbal rides a little varied and more interesting. Anyway, that's just a few tips from me...take it or leave it.
The song is cool otherwise. I think maybe the vocals are a little too loud, but they sound cool. Just keep at it and really unlock the potential of that drum software!
 
metalhead28 said:
I agree VesuviusJay, you always have some pretty cool stuff. I'm still having some trouble with the drums though. I'd really like to see you put some more time into humanizing them a little. They sound really mechanical and way too consistent. Every hit sounds the same, and the rhythms are a little too stiff. I've heard you say before that you had DFHS. What are you using to program the drums with? If you have a decent MIDI sequencer you should get in there and really mess with those velocities on the drums. Don't use the heavy snare hits every time. On fast little kick drum fills, let the velocity fade a little after the first couple of hits. Keep the cymbal rides a little varied and more interesting. Anyway, that's just a few tips from me...take it or leave it.
The song is cool otherwise. I think maybe the vocals are a little too loud, but they sound cool. Just keep at it and really unlock the potential of that drum software!
Click to expand...
Metalhead, explain a little about the velocity trails. I just use a mouse right now. Do you need to adjust each one individually? I've played with this a little, but not too much. And a midi sequencer.....a keyboard? Jay, what do you use?
Thanks, guys.
Ed
 
Dogman, I know you use Sonar just like me so this should make sense to you. I'm not sure what Jay uses.
Yeah, I always go in there and modify velocities on individual hits. I never use a max velocity snare hit more than a time or two in a row. Just a little lighter velocity will trigger a different sample that is almost the same volume but has a different timbre to the sound, and therefore will impart a more natural sound to a beat. You've got to mix those up. Put some compression on it afterwards if you're unhappy with the volume changes, but that's what it takes to make it realistic. The same thing with cymbal rides. In fact even more so with cymbals. You've got to think about how a drummer would be playing the high hat for example. The velocity of the hits and the timbre of the sound is going to vary dramatically while playing. You're never going to hear a machine like consistency to the hits. That CRACK!, CRACK!, CRACK!, CRACK! snare drum like in this song is totally unbelievable as a real drum. In Sonar's piano roll, you can mouse over the note until the velocity level is displayed, and then drag it to the appropriate level. You can also open the controller pane on the bottom of the screen and draw in the velocity levels. However if you've already programmed in all of the drums you can't easily differentiate which drum you're modifying in a busy pattern, so you've got to be strategic about it. I often input a bar or two of a drum beat, modify some velocities and the copy and paste it to fill out the part. Then I'll go back in and modify some velocities even more. I never want things to just keep repeating consistently. I also don't snap everything to exact timing. I keep alot of things quantized perfectly but sometimes it needs to fall off just a tad here and there to sound real. I never hit a cymbal the same way twice in a row. I almost never use really high velocity for tom fills. Most drummers really don't hit them that hard in a fill. The softer hits often sound the most realistic. The same is true with the snare drum on fast beats. Almost no drummer hits his snare drum during blast beats anywhere near as hard as he would during a slower beat. Keep that in mind Jay. Also you need some cool sympathetic or "ghost" like snare hits in there to really replicate a good drummer. And break those patterns up some more.
 
Cool. Thanks, Metaldude. I wasn't sure if some people were using keyboards to pragram stuff, and if that would do things any different. Thanks for the velocity info. I've played with them some, but so far I have chenged all of one drum just to a smaller velocity. I will play with mixing them up. Thanks, dude.

Jay, how are you doing your drums?
Thanks, man.
Ed
 
Well I am using DKFH samples with PC Drummer pro sequencing. I have recently tried using my friends Triton Rack and his keyboard to do drums with interesting results you can hear a sample at,
. I do use velicity differences with PC drummer, but it is weak as you can't use multiple samples for multiple velocities. I should get a roland e drum kit and just play that shite in! Thanks for all the input and listening everyone!!
 
VesuviusJay said:
.....but it is weak as you can't use multiple samples for multiple velocities.
Click to expand...

That is the problem right there. The same sample with varied volume is not convincing at all. You need to look into a better program for sequencing those drums so you can use DFH to it's full potential.
 
....

I'm digging it, and will put it on my mp3 player for future listens.

The guitar tone reminds me of the heavy guitars on the new Akercocke disc.

Drum programming sounds killer - I like the "messed up" beats. The snare is a little too consistent, but a lot of real drummers these days in death metal have that sound even with real kits, so...fuck it!
 
metalhead28 said:
That is the problem right there. The same sample with varied volume is not convincing at all. You need to look into a better program for sequencing those drums so you can use DFH to it's full potential.
Click to expand...

Is this more convincing?
I played this song in with my friends triton rack.
 
VesuviusJay said:
Is this more convincing?
I played this song in with my friends triton rack.
Click to expand...

That sounds like the same samples as before. And they all sound the same.
Especially that ride cymbal going non-stop.

I guess the important question would be, is it convincing to you?
I would take great pains to try and replicate a human performance with my drum programming, but If you're not into that you're not into it...Simple as that. If you're happy with that style and sound for the drums than that's all that matters. By the way, do you even care if people think it's programmed drums? I probably should have asked that right off the bat. I'm kinda going on my own preferences here. I'm sure alot of people prefer the "machine-like" drums in this genre of music.
 
Well I of course want to make it as convincingly "human" as possible within my limitations of not having drums nor proper mics and soundcard to get a proper chargeable quality mix. Bottom line: As is true for many HR.com users, this is my own music, I just want to get it as close to professional quality as I can before I share it with friends, and loved ones. And especially when I am going to spend the money it takes to press the music onto silkscreened CD's etc. So whichever method I get better critisizm from, I will ultimately go with that method. I know how annoying the same volume snap of some of those beats gets, so I post here hoping to eventually learn what I need to get good response from audiophiles such as yourselves. So far most of what Ive learned here has been spot on. Some not so good, but overall excellent. Every time I post a sample I have improved the mix and sound of the music. I hope to reach that point of diminishing returns, where the only way to improve the mix is to take it to a studio that will make it worth my while to pay their fees! :P So again thanks for all your input and each comment is well scrutinized! It truely is thanks to this BBS I have even come this far. Which you have to admit, it doesnt sound bad for a noob!

BTW, Ill take any suggestions to improve these tracks spending under $1000 on hardware/software ;) :P :>!
 
In all seriousness, if that's what you want to do I would suggest buying a powerful midi sequencing/DAW software like SONAR or Cubase or something like that (I'm not sure what you've got now) and get DFHS from toontrack. Using the MIDI functionality from SONAR and the full capability of DFHS I think the results can be virtually indistinguishable from real drums. As long as you are willing to dig in to the programming and edit the hell out of it!

For a good example of DFHS programmed manually with a mouse, check this out:



This isn't your style at all, but you can hear how realistic it sounds.
 
metalhead28 said:
In all seriousness, if that's what you want to do I would suggest buying a powerful midi sequencing/DAW software like SONAR or Cubase or something like that (I'm not sure what you've got now) and get DFHS from toontrack. Using the MIDI functionality from SONAR and the full capability of DFHS I think the results can be virtually indistinguishable from real drums. As long as you are willing to dig in to the programming and edit the hell out of it!

For a good example of DFHS programmed manually with a mouse, check this out:



This isn't your style at all, but you can hear how realistic it sounds.
Click to expand...
Metalhead, link doesn't work...it's an edited link with some .... in it.
Ed
 
Dogman, you must hit that link right after I posted it. I realized I did that and then I fixed it. Try it now, dude!
 
metalhead28 said:
Dogman, you must hit that link right after I posted it. I realized I did that and then I fixed it. Try it now, dude!
Click to expand...
Yep. The first time, it was exactly as you see it, with all teh periods. Works now. Cool solo.
 
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