Newest song--Let's see if my ears are improving.
- Thread starter BroKen_H
- Start date
I thought the acoustic guitars weren't bad. Maybe a bit too much low end. But they sounded full. They might be a bit too loud - they're close to crowding out the vocal.
A couple of timing mistakes here and there. One with the double tracked guitars in the first few seconds of the guitar.
The keyboard part at about 2:00 or so was nice.
The bass has a really weird tone. Almost doesn't sound like a bass. Really boxy and not much low end.
Over the mix seems to have a build up in the 500hz - 1000hz octave.
Double tracked lead vocals would be a big improvement. Might also help some border-line pitchy spots too.
I like the lead guitar part when it takes over at about 3;15. Good tone and good part.
I thought the drum part was a bit too busy. In fact it seems that every instrument is trying to be the center of attention. Makes it difficult for the listener to focus on anything.
A couple of timing mistakes here and there. One with the double tracked guitars in the first few seconds of the guitar.
The keyboard part at about 2:00 or so was nice.
The bass has a really weird tone. Almost doesn't sound like a bass. Really boxy and not much low end.
Over the mix seems to have a build up in the 500hz - 1000hz octave.
Double tracked lead vocals would be a big improvement. Might also help some border-line pitchy spots too.
I like the lead guitar part when it takes over at about 3;15. Good tone and good part.
I thought the drum part was a bit too busy. In fact it seems that every instrument is trying to be the center of attention. Makes it difficult for the listener to focus on anything.
BroKen_H
Re-member
Thanks Trip:
I kept pushing the left side of the acoustics (4 tracks panned -100% -55% +55% +100%) and I guess it got too far by the time I rendered. Ear fatigue.
I'll look for the timing errors. Right now I'm giving my ears a rest from this monster.
The bass is bi-amped (low end clean/top end distorted), so I'll push the bottom a bit, maybe that'll help the boxy...
500-1k. I'll look at what can be shaved...thanks
Thanks. I usually avoid double because I am borderline pitchy...but I felt really strong and confident on this one (maybe because I gave myself a month to practice it before I tried to sing into the mike
I really can't play guitar well...I don't use a pick anymore, just fingerpick like my bass. It doesn't sound "bad", but I'm just not very fast or accurate at it yet...(how do you get to Carnegie Hall?)
Funny, this was my first attempt at playing the drums in with my Alesis kit. That's honestly how I play. Always wondered why everyone says all my drum lines are too busy. I'll see if I can play a bit simpler.
Really appreciate the ears!
I kept pushing the left side of the acoustics (4 tracks panned -100% -55% +55% +100%) and I guess it got too far by the time I rendered. Ear fatigue.
I'll look for the timing errors. Right now I'm giving my ears a rest from this monster.
The bass is bi-amped (low end clean/top end distorted), so I'll push the bottom a bit, maybe that'll help the boxy...
500-1k. I'll look at what can be shaved...thanks
Thanks. I usually avoid double because I am borderline pitchy...but I felt really strong and confident on this one (maybe because I gave myself a month to practice it before I tried to sing into the mike
I really can't play guitar well...I don't use a pick anymore, just fingerpick like my bass. It doesn't sound "bad", but I'm just not very fast or accurate at it yet...(how do you get to Carnegie Hall?)
Funny, this was my first attempt at playing the drums in with my Alesis kit. That's honestly how I play. Always wondered why everyone says all my drum lines are too busy. I'll see if I can play a bit simpler.
Really appreciate the ears!
Schwarzenyaeger
Formerly "Dog-In-Door"
Hey Broken_H,
the acoustic guitars are too loud. I'm not a big fan of doubling and hard panning acoustic guitars. It tends to work better with electrics since they're meant to sound huge.
Since your playing on the acoustics is a bit different on both sides, it sounds almost like a ping-pong panning at times where one side will jump up in volume heavily on a transient. I'd compress them both gently and bring them down in volume or scrap the wide panning. I can't make out much low end on the bass guitar.
I think that the biggest issue is to bring down the acoustics. It's a it hard to hear everything else when they're this loud. If you could do that and reupload a new version, it would be great.
the acoustic guitars are too loud. I'm not a big fan of doubling and hard panning acoustic guitars. It tends to work better with electrics since they're meant to sound huge.
Since your playing on the acoustics is a bit different on both sides, it sounds almost like a ping-pong panning at times where one side will jump up in volume heavily on a transient. I'd compress them both gently and bring them down in volume or scrap the wide panning. I can't make out much low end on the bass guitar.
I think that the biggest issue is to bring down the acoustics. It's a it hard to hear everything else when they're this loud. If you could do that and reupload a new version, it would be great.
here's what I noticed, it lacks subs and extreme high end, quite midrange heavy overall, there's not much sparkle.
I agree with schwarz that the acoustic guitars also need compressing, they are definitely too dynamic for the song. There's a few other things too, in the chorus sections the synth choir is a bit too loud, maybe 1-2dB, the bass drum and bass guitar are also clashing, bass drum has too much 200-300Hz, which is where the bass guitar should be sitting, try adding 10k to the kick. I would also have just 2 guitars not 4 and pan them less extreme , maybe 30% left and right, but experiment with this further. Hope that helps,
Ben.
I agree with schwarz that the acoustic guitars also need compressing, they are definitely too dynamic for the song. There's a few other things too, in the chorus sections the synth choir is a bit too loud, maybe 1-2dB, the bass drum and bass guitar are also clashing, bass drum has too much 200-300Hz, which is where the bass guitar should be sitting, try adding 10k to the kick. I would also have just 2 guitars not 4 and pan them less extreme , maybe 30% left and right, but experiment with this further. Hope that helps,
Ben.
BroKen_H
Re-member
Thanks Ben! First time I've been accused of too little compression...tried to leave most of it off on this one. The 4 tracks are comped separately, but maybe I'll put a bus compressor on them to tame that out.
You're saying add a 10k shelf to the kick to tame 200-300? Dang, that works...learn something new every day. Makes it snappier so you can turn the volume down.
You're saying add a 10k shelf to the kick to tame 200-300? Dang, that works...learn something new every day. Makes it snappier so you can turn the volume down.
BroKen_H
Re-member
Compressed the acoustics on a bus using a tube limiter. Pumped the 18 on the bass. Shelved the 10k on the kick and turned it down some. Turned down those pesky oohaahs. Redid my lousy solo at the beginning. Opened up the vocals a bit. Carved what I could in the 500-1k range. Up to 30 tracks...everything can be heard. Everything sounds decent. 2nd mix going up...
Man you guys are amazing. I even turned down the toms so it doesn't hit so hard that my drums are busy.
Man you guys are amazing. I even turned down the toms so it doesn't hit so hard that my drums are busy.
BroKen_H
Re-member
I turned a lot of stuff down on the second mix, so it's quieter. Please don't hold that against it, it does sound a lot clearer.
Cymbals are too loud. Guitars are still just a bit too loud. Organ is a bit too loud now. Rhodes fits very nicely and just pops out. Bass is nice and thumpy when the kick is out, but I may be siding it too much...when the kick hits the bass disappears (and there's a lot of kick). Backups and oohaahs sound right now. Kick is too thumpy. Really like the guitar tones, acoustic and electric.
Different to clear your head and critique your own stuff...
Cymbals are too loud. Guitars are still just a bit too loud. Organ is a bit too loud now. Rhodes fits very nicely and just pops out. Bass is nice and thumpy when the kick is out, but I may be siding it too much...when the kick hits the bass disappears (and there's a lot of kick). Backups and oohaahs sound right now. Kick is too thumpy. Really like the guitar tones, acoustic and electric.
Different to clear your head and critique your own stuff...
Schwarzenyaeger
Formerly "Dog-In-Door"
I thought you'd forgotten that this is your song lol
I can hear the acoustic guitars compressing now I feel. Whenever there is a transient it goes up in volume and then goes down unnaturally quick. Try gentler compression or a quicker attack and slower release or something. It could be smoother.
The tom rolls at :22 are almost non existent in terms of volume. Pan them a bit as well.
The lead tone is a bit grating. It has a guitar sim quality to it. Harshness.
The vocal is sitting a lot better now.
NotThatBright
New member
I'd say turn up the lead guitar a little until you get to 2:05 and it's playing during the singing... at that point leave it at the level you currently have it at. Then at 3:15 turn it back up until the end of the song, even though there's some singing left.
Nice song. As a northerner and a Catholic (by birth), I always liked the term "papist" that they called us in the South, though I know it was not meant to be complimentary. In fact, when I met people in Georgia in Florida I introduced myself as a papist, just because I liked the name. Throw in a line about papists in your next song. That would be boss.
Nice song. As a northerner and a Catholic (by birth), I always liked the term "papist" that they called us in the South, though I know it was not meant to be complimentary. In fact, when I met people in Georgia in Florida I introduced myself as a papist, just because I liked the name. Throw in a line about papists in your next song. That would be boss.
mjbphotos
Moderator
I only listened to the second mix. For the intro, it'd be my preference to give some 'meat' to the acoustics - mids, which I know can make it muddy (but that's a reason to only use one or two rather than 4 tracks). It doesn't sound like they are played pickless, so you must have a fair amount of EQ on them. The bass almost has two parts to it, the low end and higher boxier sound, but the low part needs to be louder, it's like all the middle part of its EQ has been scooped out. Some of the cymbal hits are hissy, though not too loud, just some EQ on them should fix.
jimistone
long standing member
I listened to the second mix. To start with...great song!
I think the acoustics sound good and the vocal sets well in the mix. I like the drum sounds too. The bass has a midrange honkiness that needs cutting....it will make the bottom end more solid. I'm not a fan of the lead guitar sound. It's very thin sounding and has gazoo sounding distortion. I would suggest backing off on the distortion level and giving it a little more body. You're getting there on this song bro. It's going to be really good. I may cover it at church if it's OK with you.
I think the acoustics sound good and the vocal sets well in the mix. I like the drum sounds too. The bass has a midrange honkiness that needs cutting....it will make the bottom end more solid. I'm not a fan of the lead guitar sound. It's very thin sounding and has gazoo sounding distortion. I would suggest backing off on the distortion level and giving it a little more body. You're getting there on this song bro. It's going to be really good. I may cover it at church if it's OK with you.
BroKen_H
Re-member
Schwarz! Keen. I went ahead and replaced the tube limiter with a C1-L1 with the attack set all the way to 1 ms and the release set to 300ms and good call on the drum roll. Grabbed that one roll and pumped the wave up without affecting the rest of the track. You'll see those in the next mix.
NTB: Thanks for the listen! Glad you like the song. Still working on the two guitar lines. Thinking of making them all on the same track. I'm using a different cab and a boost on the solos, but the same basic amp settings. Maybe I can play with the boost, or try the tube screamer I bought and have never used...Of all my fights, the electrics are my biggest.
Thanks Mike! Good ear! I played with the acoustics this morning. Automated the high pass to let more balls through during the intro and the Rhodes solo, then back up during the rest of the song so they don't muddy the bass line. Actually, no EQ, just thick fingernails. Strumming is easy with nails. Picking a solo like you're fingering a bass limits your speed a bit...well at least mine! The bass is an 18" with a 57 and a 2x10 cab with the 2001. The crossover set to around 800 hz and the top has a nice tube dist added. Maybe I should stop trying to relive the 80s sound and work with a modern cab sim...
I'll take a look at the cymbals.
Jimmy! Thanks. It's a labor of love. The kick actually has an 80Hz sub kicker to it to give it balls. Ben's idea with the 10k shelf really made it shine! I either need to run the bass as a single in from the 18 and skip the distortion or try some weird EQ trickery I guess. I kind of like the bass sound, but if the consensus is to reboot, maybe I'll just have to sit down and retrack with DI. Okay...the first comment I got about the guitar sound was the second solo had good tone, so I moved the first solo to it's cab. Maybe that was the mistake. I'll get it all on the mellower cab sim and play with the mike placement a bit. Brand new Kuassa package that I'm still playing with... I really like the tone of the background guitars, but yeah, there's something "bitey" about the leads. Like I said above, I might pull out the tube screamer (sim) and see what happens. Probably have to wait for Saturday. Then we'll get mix #3.
Thanks everybody. You are the best. Someday, I'd like to meet a lot of the people on here. If anyone's ever vacationing around the Outer Banks, let me know!
NTB: Thanks for the listen! Glad you like the song. Still working on the two guitar lines. Thinking of making them all on the same track. I'm using a different cab and a boost on the solos, but the same basic amp settings. Maybe I can play with the boost, or try the tube screamer I bought and have never used...Of all my fights, the electrics are my biggest.
Thanks Mike! Good ear! I played with the acoustics this morning. Automated the high pass to let more balls through during the intro and the Rhodes solo, then back up during the rest of the song so they don't muddy the bass line. Actually, no EQ, just thick fingernails. Strumming is easy with nails. Picking a solo like you're fingering a bass limits your speed a bit...well at least mine!
The bass is an 18" with a 57 and a 2x10 cab with the 2001. The crossover set to around 800 hz and the top has a nice tube dist added. Maybe I should stop trying to relive the 80s sound and work with a modern cab sim...I'll take a look at the cymbals.
Jimmy! Thanks. It's a labor of love. The kick actually has an 80Hz sub kicker to it to give it balls. Ben's idea with the 10k shelf really made it shine! I either need to run the bass as a single in from the 18 and skip the distortion or try some weird EQ trickery I guess. I kind of like the bass sound, but if the consensus is to reboot, maybe I'll just have to sit down and retrack with DI. Okay...the first comment I got about the guitar sound was the second solo had good tone, so I moved the first solo to it's cab. Maybe that was the mistake. I'll get it all on the mellower cab sim and play with the mike placement a bit. Brand new Kuassa package that I'm still playing with... I really like the tone of the background guitars, but yeah, there's something "bitey" about the leads. Like I said above, I might pull out the tube screamer (sim) and see what happens. Probably have to wait for Saturday. Then we'll get mix #3.
Thanks everybody. You are the best. Someday, I'd like to meet a lot of the people on here. If anyone's ever vacationing around the Outer Banks, let me know!
Went straight for mix #3. Honestly I think mix #1 was better. Mix #3 has an overall swirliness that is very distracting. Just a hyped high end that gets grating fast.
I like the acoustic guitar in #1 better. You did something to it besides adding compression. At least it sounds like it.
The keyboard is way too loud.
They cymbals in mix #3 sound really bad.
The midrange buildup got worse.
The one thing about #3 that's better is the bass.
I like the acoustic guitar in #1 better. You did something to it besides adding compression. At least it sounds like it.
The keyboard is way too loud.
They cymbals in mix #3 sound really bad.
The midrange buildup got worse.
The one thing about #3 that's better is the bass.
BroKen_H
Re-member
Fingers in the cookie jar. Was playing with the mastering junk again before getting the mix right. All the high end boost is from a master EQ. The mid build up seems to come from that isotope Ozone thing. Can't keep it from boosting the mids when I try to boost the volume. Which, of course, boosts that Rhodes...
Anyway, take the mastering junk back off and keep working on the balance on the cymbals and acoustic. Good to know the bass is starting to shape up.
Anyway, take the mastering junk back off and keep working on the balance on the cymbals and acoustic. Good to know the bass is starting to shape up.
Schwarz! Keen. I went ahead and replaced the tube limiter with a C1-L1 with the attack set all the way to 1 ms and the release set to 300ms and good call on the drum roll. Grabbed that one roll and pumped the wave up without affecting the rest of the track. You'll see those in the next mix.
NTB: Thanks for the listen! Glad you like the song. Still working on the two guitar lines. Thinking of making them all on the same track. I'm using a different cab and a boost on the solos, but the same basic amp settings. Maybe I can play with the boost, or try the tube screamer I bought and have never used...Of all my fights, the electrics are my biggest.
Thanks Mike! Good ear! I played with the acoustics this morning. Automated the high pass to let more balls through during the intro and the Rhodes solo, then back up during the rest of the song so they don't muddy the bass line. Actually, no EQ, just thick fingernails. Strumming is easy with nails. Picking a solo like you're fingering a bass limits your speed a bit...well at least mine!
I'll take a look at the cymbals.
Jimmy! Thanks. It's a labor of love. The kick actually has an 80Hz sub kicker to it to give it balls. Ben's idea with the 10k shelf really made it shine! I either need to run the bass as a single in from the 18 and skip the distortion or try some weird EQ trickery I guess. I kind of like the bass sound, but if the consensus is to reboot, maybe I'll just have to sit down and retrack with DI. Okay...the first comment I got about the guitar sound was the second solo had good tone, so I moved the first solo to it's cab. Maybe that was the mistake. I'll get it all on the mellower cab sim and play with the mike placement a bit. Brand new Kuassa package that I'm still playing with... I really like the tone of the background guitars, but yeah, there's something "bitey" about the leads. Like I said above, I might pull out the tube screamer (sim) and see what happens. Probably have to wait for Saturday. Then we'll get mix #3.
Thanks everybody. You are the best. Someday, I'd like to meet a lot of the people on here. If anyone's ever vacationing around the Outer Banks, let me know!
if you ever want to meet up and you are in manchester, uk, same thing to you man
rayc
retroreprobate
Third mix - your voice is in a different room and keyboards need something.
The lead guitar doesn't sound convincing up font or in the back - needs something but I don't know what.
Lyrically it suggests you are either paranoid or the whole world really is against you.
Chords progression is good, the melody works well and the bass is a great start.
The lead guitar doesn't sound convincing up font or in the back - needs something but I don't know what.
Lyrically it suggests you are either paranoid or the whole world really is against you.
Chords progression is good, the melody works well and the bass is a great start.