Newbie Web Designer

[Rusty K]

Hey...

I've been tinkering with my bands website for some time using a drop and drag program. I'm frustrated with the third rate quality of what we have so I've decided to jump in with both feet. I have a html editor (Alley Code) that is very helpful and I have a pretty good book for beginners. What I need is a forum like this one for web design, where I can come and ask questions. The Alley Code forum is currently not functional.

Do you know of a good user friendly web design forum?

Thanks

 

[mjr]

Hey...

I've been tinkering with my bands website for some time using a drop and drag program. I'm frustrated with the third rate quality of what we have so I've decided to jump in with both feet. I have a html editor (Alley Code) that is very helpful and I have a pretty good book for beginners. What I need is a forum like this one for web design, where I can come and ask questions. The Alley Code forum is currently not functional.

Do you know of a good user friendly web design forum?

Thanks

Rusty:

What kind(s) of problems are you having? I might be able to point you in the right direction, depending on the issues you are having.

If you're just doing static HTML, you could just check out the web tutorials at www.w3schools.com. It looks like they have a forum, too (near the upper right corner by the search box).

For more "in depth" questions, you could probably check SiteExperts.com. It's free, and it doesn't get quite as much traffic as it used to (spammers drove away a bunch of members), but the ones who do post on there are pretty knowledgeable, and they'll answer questions as long as you indicate in your post what you've tried/googled, and what worked and what didn't.

See? I'm not all bad.

BTW...drag and drop stuff, in general, stinks. A lot of it produces bloated code. The best way to do it is to hand-code if you can. This way, you have a LOT more control (it's what I prefer).

PM me if you have any other questions.

 

[Rusty K]

Rusty:

What kind(s) of problems are you having? I might be able to point you in the right direction, depending on the issues you are having.

If you're just doing static HTML, you could just check out the web tutorials at www.w3schools.com. It looks like they have a forum, too (near the upper right corner by the search box).

For more "in depth" questions, you could probably check SiteExperts.com. It's free, and it doesn't get quite as much traffic as it used to (spammers drove away a bunch of members), but the ones who do post on there are pretty knowledgeable, and they'll answer questions as long as you indicate in your post what you've tried/googled, and what worked and what didn't.

See? I'm not all bad.

BTW...drag and drop stuff, in general, stinks. A lot of it produces bloated code. The best way to do it is to hand-code if you can. This way, you have a LOT more control (it's what I prefer).

PM me if you have any other questions.

Thanks...will do. Let me get a couple of questions and code examples and I'll PM them to you. Got a gig tonight so it will be later.

Thanks again.

 

[mattr]

BTW...drag and drop stuff, in general, stinks. A lot of it produces bloated code. The best way to do it is to hand-code if you can. This way, you have a LOT more control (it's what I prefer).

Ditto

The best advice I can give you is to scrap all the WYSIWYGOMGTHISISALONGACRONYMCRAP and learn to hand-code some nice tidy and standards-compliant XHTML and CSS. Not that difficult to get your head around and you'll thank yourself in the long run.

And all you need is a text editor! I use notepad++ when doing PHP stuff because the tabbed interface and syntax highlighting comes in handy, but Notepad is all you need to knock together a good design.

As for graphics, you can take care of most things with The GIMP.

 

[Rusty K]

Rusty:

What kind(s) of problems are you having? I might be able to point you in the right direction, depending on the issues you are having.

If you're just doing static HTML, you could just check out the web tutorials at www.w3schools.com. It looks like they have a forum, too (near the upper right corner by the search box).

For more "in depth" questions, you could probably check SiteExperts.com. It's free, and it doesn't get quite as much traffic as it used to (spammers drove away a bunch of members), but the ones who do post on there are pretty knowledgeable, and they'll answer questions as long as you indicate in your post what you've tried/googled, and what worked and what didn't.

See? I'm not all bad.

BTW...drag and drop stuff, in general, stinks. A lot of it produces bloated code. The best way to do it is to hand-code if you can. This way, you have a LOT more control (it's what I prefer).

PM me if you have any other questions.

mjr,

Here's some code that I've started as an xhtml document...

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">

<head>
<title> The Fabs </title>
<meta name="Generator" content="Alleycode HTML Editor" />
<meta name="Description" content="A website devoted to the promotion of the musical group, The Fabs" />
<meta name="Keywords" content="professional,band,variety,dance,party,austin,texas,original,music,rock-n-roll" />
</head>

<body bgcolor="#000000">

<table width="80%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center">
<tr>
<td width="230"><img src="Images/Logo 1.gif" width="230" height="100" alt="" /></td>
<td background="Images/Background.gif"></td>
</tr>
</table>


</body>
</html>

Questions...where to start? Actually I'm not totally green since with former builds of our website I've had to go to the source page and tweak some. It's given me a little understanding of how it works.



A couple of very basic points that I'm missing however are about how to use a background graphic...say a picture unrepeated. In other words how to size it to cover the page and not lose proportions and resolution etc.. What is the actual size of the page...primarily width (I'm assuming the length is indeterminate)?

Also "positioning" of elements...for instance in the first table, two columns...

I'm not understanding what part of the code tells the browser to align the logo graphic to the left of the first cell/column...then for the cell background graphic it aligns right within the second cell until I add the <td width="230"> at the beginning of that line (as per tutorial). This causes the graphic to repeat back/left to the end of the logo graphic.

My editor has sync view which is nice but it still seems that it's hit or miss/trial and error for obtaining precise alignments. I realize that I could do all or most of the aligning with the original graphics design before adding them to the mark-up but I'm just wonderin...???

As you can see this is an xhtml document...I'm not clear on the difference between that and html...my initial assumption is that xhtml is an easier short hand but you might set me straight on that. I'm just delving into css but it looks very logical and easy so far and will make servicing the site much easier.

I opted to post this in the thread instead of PM in hopes that someone else at a later time might derive some benefit from the discussion.

Thanks again for your willingness to "reach across the aisle"...

 

[Rusty K]

Ditto

The best advice I can give you is to scrap all the WYSIWYGOMGTHISISALONGACRONYMCRAP and learn to hand-code some nice tidy and standards-compliant XHTML and CSS. Not that difficult to get your head around and you'll thank yourself in the long run.

And all you need is a text editor! I use notepad++ when doing PHP stuff because the tabbed interface and syntax highlighting comes in handy, but Notepad is all you need to knock together a good design.

As for graphics, you can take care of most things with The GIMP.

Sorry but what is GIMP? I have Notepad and I understand that the writeup can be done there. I think I need more confidence first...right now the html editor with sync view is really helping me.

 

[mjr]

mjr,

Here's some code that I've started as an xhtml document...

Questions...where to start? Actually I'm not totally green since with former builds of our website I've had to go to the source page and tweak some. It's given me a little understanding of how it works.

A couple of very basic points that I'm missing however are about how to use a background graphic...say a picture unrepeated. In other words how to size it to cover the page and not lose proportions and resolution etc.. What is the actual size of the page...primarily width (I'm assuming the length is indeterminate)?

Also "positioning" of elements...for instance in the first table, two columns...

I'm not understanding what part of the code tells the browser to align the logo graphic to the left of the first cell/column...then for the cell background graphic it aligns right within the second cell until I add the <td width="230"> at the beginning of that line (as per tutorial). This causes the graphic to repeat back/left to the end of the logo graphic.

My editor has sync view which is nice but it still seems that it's hit or miss/trial and error for obtaining precise alignments. I realize that I could do all or most of the aligning with the original graphics design before adding them to the mark-up but I'm just wonderin...???

As you can see this is an xhtml document...I'm not clear on the difference between that and html...my initial assumption is that xhtml is an easier short hand but you might set me straight on that. I'm just delving into css but it looks very logical and easy so far and will make servicing the site much easier.

I opted to post this in the thread instead of PM in hopes that someone else at a later time might derive some benefit from the discussion.

Thanks again for your willingness to "reach across the aisle"...

Definitely look into CSS. CSS will also help you position things a bit easier, and make site maintenance a TON easier. What type of image are you trying to position and resize?

XHTML is essentially a stricter version of HTML. It's supposed to make things easier.

Check out this page on the images:

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_images.asp

If you want to make a background image in a cell, but also have text, you can do it like this (off the top of my head):
<table align="center" border="1" width="100%" height="100%">
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<div style="position: relative; left: 55px; top: 70px; z-index: 2; border: 3px black; width:

200">Test text.</div>
<img src="MyImage.jpg" style="position: relative; left: 50px; top: 50px; z-index: 1;">
</td>
</tr>
</table>

Or you could use negative positioning, like this (see bold) with the image and DIV flipped (where the text is still on top):

<table align="center" border="1" width="100%" height="100%">
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<img src="MyImage.jpg" style="position: relative; left: 50px; top: 50px; z-index: 1;">
<div style="position: relative; left: 55px; top: -50px; z-index: 2; border: 3px black; width:

200">Test text.</div>
</td>
</tr>
</table>

Also, as a suggestion, if you're using tables, turn your table border on (border="1") until you get things the way you want them, then turn the border off (border="0").

The GIMP is the Gnu Image Manipulation Program. It's essentially a freeware version of Photoshop. There's a Windows version of it.

It's actually galled GimpShop, and it's here: http://www.gimpshop.com/

What's your current site, Rusty? I'd like to take a look at it.

Also, if you want to add some cool "cut & paste" scripts to your site, check out http://www.dynamicdrive.com/

If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask.

 

[mattr]

Sorry but what is GIMP? I have Notepad and I understand that the writeup can be done there. I think I need more confidence first...right now the html editor with sync view is really helping me.

GNU Image Manipulation Program (GIMP)... http://www.gimp.org/ ... for making images / graphics for the design
Sorry I didn't clarify that - what I meant is that with you can do pretty much anything with just Notepad and the GIMP. No need for anything like like the Adobe suite!

It's actually galled GimpShop, and it's here: http://www.gimpshop.com/

Its not called GimpShop - that's a modified/forked version of the GIMP for people used to Photoshop.
I've never used it and I'm sure its great, but I'd suggest you stick with the normal, most up-to-date and well maintained version!

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">

<head>
<title> The Fabs </title>
<meta name="Generator" content="Alleycode HTML Editor" />
<meta name="Description" content="A website devoted to the promotion of the musical group, The Fabs" />
<meta name="Keywords" content="professional,band,variety,dance,party,austin,texas,original,music,rock-n-roll" />
</head>

<body bgcolor="#000000">

<table width="80%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center">
<tr>
<td width="230"><img src="Images/Logo 1.gif" width="230" height="100" alt="" /></td>
<td background="Images/Background.gif"></td>
</tr>
</table>


</body>
</html>

Things wrong / I don't like with this code (I'll explain any if you want me to)...

No character encoding declared (this would be the first thing picked up by the w3c validator). You need a line such as...

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=utf-8" />

...in the head of the page (note: above is for UTF-8 unicode, change as necessary)

You let the editor put its 'Generator' tag in there. There's no need! Even if you are using a WYSIWYG editor, why admit it!?

Body background colour should be specified in CSS (preferably in an external stylesheet)


Right... tables... ewww.

The idea of using tables in web page designs is a remnant of the awful design trends and methods of the 1990s and, whilst as good as dead in real web design, it is unfortunately is still being kept alive today by the very kind of HTML editor you are using!

Its just a horribly ugly way of doing things.

Tables are for data. If you have a table of data, believe it or not you should put it in a table!
If you want to style that table, you use CSS. But that's where their usefulness ends...

Content should go in DIV elements (<div>) and then be styled with CSS.
In most cases, design elements should be DIVs styled with CSS.

Seeing a trend here?


The idea is to split up content and design, such that the content makes sense without the design and the design can be changed without affecting the content. The content is kept in the HTML and the styling usually in a seperate CSS stylesheet (referenced/linked. in the head of each HTML document). This makes it easier to have a consistent design that can be easily edited by editing the stylesheet without having to change each page individually; something not nearly so easy with a complicated and bloated table design!

This is also about accessibility. If the design is kept in CSS, it can much more easily be disabled to make it better to display for the visually impaired, or read by a text-to-speech program for the blind. Conversely with a layout done in tables, all the content is split up between rows/columns and makes no sense and with the styling removed you will see it as a an ugly table, not as the nice design you thought it was.

If you are using Firefox, load up a well designed webpage such as www.bbc.co.uk and go to the View menu -> Page Style -> No Style. Notice how the content by itself still makes sense without the design, despite the full design being quite busy and complex with some AJAX. None of the HTML has been changed, only the stylesheet removed. The HTML markup is good, i.e. all headings are in heading tags, etc, so that they are still known to be headings and retained even when the design is removed. Imagine how useful all this would be if you were visually impaired, or if you were writing the HTML parsing code for a text-to-speech program!

Using stylesheets also opens up all kinds of other opportunities, i.e. you can have different styles/designs that can be swapped around just by changing which one the pages are linked to. You can do this dynamically using PHP (very easy if you have a universal header.php to include at the beginning of every page) and let, for example, a visitor chose a design with larger fonts and fewer graphics. All the content and HTML stays the same - only the CSS changes.


So what tags should you be using in the body of your HTML?

Mostly this will be DIVs, paragraphs, spans and hyperlinks.
Forms and relevant input elements occasionally.
Numbered lists and unordered lists.
Tables, but used properly!

Off the top of my head, these should be all you need for about 99% of pages.


Errrm, I've kinda nattered on quite a bit there.

Basically, have a read through this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tableless_web_design

Read up on HTML.
Read up on CSS.



I'm sure that's answered one question, and spawned 100 more!

 

[mjr]

GNU Image Manipulation Program (GIMP)... http://www.gimp.org/ ... for making images / graphics for the design
Sorry I didn't clarify that - what I meant is that with you can do pretty much anything with just Notepad and the GIMP. No need for anything like like the Adobe suite!

Its not called GimpShop - that's a modified/forked version of the GIMP for people used to Photoshop.
I've never used it and I'm sure its great, but I'd suggest you stick with the normal, most up-to-date and well maintained version!

Things wrong / I don't like with this code (I'll explain any if you want me to)...

No character encoding declared (this would be the first thing picked up by the w3c validator). You need a line such as...

...in the head of the page (note: above is for UTF-8 unicode, change as necessary)

You let the editor put its 'Generator' tag in there. There's no need! Even if you are using a WYSIWYG editor, why admit it!?

Body background colour should be specified in CSS (preferably in an external stylesheet)

Right... tables... ewww.

The idea of using tables in web page designs is a remnant of the awful design trends and methods of the 1990s and, whilst as good as dead in real web design, it is unfortunately is still being kept alive today by the very kind of HTML editor you are using!

Its just a horribly ugly way of doing things.

Tables are for data. If you have a table of data, believe it or not you should put it in a table!
If you want to style that table, you use CSS. But that's where their usefulness ends...

Content should go in DIV elements (<div>) and then be styled with CSS.
In most cases, design elements should be DIVs styled with CSS.

Seeing a trend here?

The idea is to split up content and design, such that the content makes sense without the design and the design can be changed without affecting the content. The content is kept in the HTML and the styling usually in a seperate CSS stylesheet (referenced/linked. in the head of each HTML document). This makes it easier to have a consistent design that can be easily edited by editing the stylesheet without having to change each page individually; something not nearly so easy with a complicated and bloated table design!

This is also about accessibility. If the design is kept in CSS, it can much more easily be disabled to make it better to display for the visually impaired, or read by a text-to-speech program for the blind. Conversely with a layout done in tables, all the content is split up between rows/columns and makes no sense and with the styling removed you will see it as a an ugly table, not as the nice design you thought it was.

If you are using Firefox, load up a well designed webpage such as www.bbc.co.uk and go to the View menu -> Page Style -> No Style. Notice how the content by itself still makes sense without the design, despite the full design being quite busy and complex with some AJAX. None of the HTML has been changed, only the stylesheet removed. The HTML markup is good, i.e. all headings are in heading tags, etc, so that they are still known to be headings and retained even when the design is removed. Imagine how useful all this would be if you were visually impaired, or if you were writing the HTML parsing code for a text-to-speech program!

Using stylesheets also opens up all kinds of other opportunities, i.e. you can have different styles/designs that can be swapped around just by changing which one the pages are linked to. You can do this dynamically using PHP (very easy if you have a universal header.php to include at the beginning of every page) and let, for example, a visitor chose a design with larger fonts and fewer graphics. All the content and HTML stays the same - only the CSS changes.

So what tags should you be using in the body of your HTML?

Mostly this will be DIVs, paragraphs, spans and hyperlinks.
Forms and relevant input elements occasionally.
Numbered lists and unordered lists.
Tables, but used properly!

Off the top of my head, these should be all you need for about 99% of pages.

Errrm, I've kinda nattered on quite a bit there.

Basically, have a read through this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tableless_web_design

Read up on HTML.
Read up on CSS.

I'm sure that's answered one question, and spawned 100 more!

While I agree with most of what you're saying (as a web guy myself), tables can be used effectively, as long as they aren't over-used. The problem is over-use. They're simpler, which is good for someone starting out. I'm sure Rusty will move on from a table-based layout in due time.

In this case, Rusty is getting started, while what you're saying holds true, Rusty can utilize tables at first, then go back later and delve deeper into what you have mentioned above.

I don't think Character Encoding is necessary, and I don't know that Rusty will be validating his code for his purposes at this time. He may later, but right now I don't see a need to.

 

[mattr]

I'm an advocate for getting things right from the start. Why learn one way of doing things, only then to find its an outdated and ineffective method and have to relearn everything?

Anyway, things like character encoding you don't even need to understand properly in most situations - just get in the habit of always copy+pasting the declaration line... Rusty has already declared doctype, so why not document encoding?


But seriously, tables are something I would avoid. Been there, done that, and never going back.

As well as the Wikipedia link I posted, this is also a good page about tableless layouts...
http://www.chromaticsites.com/blog/13-reasons-why-css-is-superior-to-tables-in-website-design/

Reason #8 is says quite a lot really...

We get quite a few replies to our posts which contain anti-CSS rhetoric (and we’re almost positive we’ll get some with this article) from people who seem to believe that tables are still useful and acceptable for designing and assembling websites. An interesting observation is that the majority of the time, these table-loving comments come from web designers and web developers who are still using tables to build their websites. This illustrates an important point: some people do not want CSS to replace tables simply because they don’t want to have to learn something new, are afraid of change, make a living using table-based designs or [INSERT another poor excuse here]. If, by chance, you are a web designer who is making a living off of table-based designs, you shouldn’t worry too much. All you need to do is learn CSS – it isn’t THAT hard, seriously!

If you’ve read the majority of this article, then chances are you will agree that CSS has some very clear advantages over table-based designs. Perhaps this is the reason why more and more web design companies are transitioning to CSS-based designs and leaving tables where they should be – in spreadsheet documents. Perhaps that is why more and more web businesses and web startups are looking for designers proficient in XHTML and CSS-based design. CSS is just plain better (yea, we’re biased, so what!).

If you design websites for a living or are studying web design in school or on your own, increase your competitive edge and learn the current technology that is powering web design – CSS. Although booting up an application such a Dreamweaver and creating a table-based layout is quick and painless, you’re not really learning anything by letting the program do most of the work for you. Not just that, but you’re missing out on all of the goodness that comes with CSS (not to mention you’re cheating yourself or your clients by using outdated website technology). Just say “NO” to table-based designs!

 

[Rusty K]

Guys...much thanks so for all this info. It will take a while for me to absorb it all.

I'm ashamed to give you the website. It's been functional but it's really pathetic...totally generated and the real capper was when I got a new wide screen monitor...jeeze! I'm starting over from scratch and I'm not attached to anything about the old site. If you must see it then... http://www.thefabs.net

I snagged the Alley Code editor because it was free. Is there a more up to date editor in that same price range? I guess I could spring for a little cash but times are tough. Let me ask this...if I used Notepad how could I bring the markup into a browser for review? I have Firefox, IE and I just downloaded Opera.

Oh yes...about GIMP. I have Photoshop Elements.

 

[mjr]

Guys...much thanks so for all this info. It will take a while for me to absorb it all.

I'm ashamed to give you the website. It's been functional but it's really pathetic...totally generated and the real capper was when I got a new wide screen monitor...jeeze! I'm starting over from scratch and I'm not attached to anything about the old site. If you must see it then... http://www.thefabs.net

I snagged the Alley Code editor because it was free. Is there a more up to date editor in that same price range? I guess I could spring for a little cash but times are tough. Let me ask this...if I used Notepad how could I bring the markup into a browser for review? I have Firefox, IE and I just downloaded Opera.

Oh yes...about GIMP. I have Photoshop Elements.

Rusty:

Notepad is fine for what you're doing -- for now. I believe Eclipse has a few editors, they may even have one for HTML (the last one I downloaded was for PHP).

Anyway, to bring the file up in a browser, just save it as HTML (obviously). Then, in FireFox, go to File, then Open File, then navigate to your HTML file, and open it. At that point, it should open in the browser.

If you keep notepad open, and your browser window with the page open, and you need to make changes, just make them, then go back to your browser and hit F5 (refresh).

IE is very similar (I mostly use FireFox). Except in IE you have to go File, Open, then click the Browse... button.

BTW...here's a whole list of HTML Editors from Tucows.

http://www.tucows.com/Windows/DevelopmentWebAuthoring/HTMLEditors/

Here's another:
http://www.myeclipseide.com/htmlpages-func-display-pid-12.html?gclid=COjhsYeYmp4CFQ8eDQodfUIwmA

And to go along with what mattr is saying, here's a page on tableless layouts.

http://www.w3.org/2002/03/csslayout-howto.html.en

 

[mjr]

I'm an advocate for getting things right from the start. Why learn one way of doing things, only then to find its an outdated and ineffective method and have to relearn everything?

Anyway, things like character encoding you don't even need to understand properly in most situations - just get in the habit of always copy+pasting the declaration line... Rusty has already declared doctype, so why not document encoding?


But seriously, tables are something I would avoid. Been there, done that, and never going back.

As well as the Wikipedia link I posted, this is also a good page about tableless layouts...
http://www.chromaticsites.com/blog/13-reasons-why-css-is-superior-to-tables-in-website-design/

Reason #8 is says quite a lot really...

While I agree for the most part with #8, CSS can be used within tables, and used effectively.

But you're right, it's mostly DIVs and SPANS, and other block-level elements that are being used nowadays to design sites.

I just made a change to my post above...

 

[Rusty K]

Yes...100 more questions but I'll limit it to just a couple to get me kick started.

Alley Code automatically generates this first couple of lines...

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">

The tutorial said these lines (or similar) were necessary for all markups. I'd be lost as to how to write this up on my own in Notepad.

Secondly, about eliminating the "generated by"...I wondered about this as well. Can I delete that whole line...or just type in my own name?

I can't thank you enough. I'll get to work on my own and come back to this thread at a later time, hopefully with a link for you to critique.

 

[mjr]

Yes...100 more questions but I'll limit it to just a couple to get me kick started.

Alley Code automatically generates this first couple of lines...



The tutorial said these lines (or similar) were necessary for all markups. I'd be lost as to how to write this up on my own in Notepad.

Secondly, about eliminating the "generated by"...I wondered about this as well. Can I delete that whole line...or just type in my own name?

I can't thank you enough. I'll get to work on my own and come back to this thread at a later time, hopefully with a link for you to critique.

Rusty:

With regard to the first couple of lines, copy them into notepad, and save it as something like HeaderTemplate.txt. This way, you have it at the ready when you need it.

The generated by line you can delete. You don't really need it. A lot of the WYSIWYG editors put things like that in automatically.

Unless you really want to put your name in. Either way. That particular line isn't needed, though.

 

[Rusty K]

Rusty:

With regard to the first couple of lines, copy them into notepad, and save it as something like HeaderTemplate.txt. This way, you have it at the ready when you need it.

The generated by line you can delete. You don't really need it. A lot of the WYSIWYG editors put things like that in automatically.

Unless you really want to put your name in. Either way. That particular line isn't needed, though.

Ok...one last to be clear...the lines as I quoted work for any xhtml page?

 

[mjr]

Ok...one last to be clear...the lines as I quoted work for any xhtml page?

Yes. They should.

 

[TeyshaBlue]

...........

 

[TeyshaBlue]

Holy Crap! And I thought I wanted to build a website.

Time to wave the magic wallet.

 

[mjr]

Holy Crap! And I thought I wanted to build a website.

Time to wave the magic wallet.

Hit me up with a PM, Teysha...might be able to help you with that.