Newbie Tape Machine Question

[Beck]

Well, this really has nothing to do with any analog VS digital debate...and/or any actual *recording/mixing to tape*....
...he just wants to bounce from DAW to tape for the "warmth" effect....which ain't really recording/mixing to tape.

I think the considerations here should be more about what is right for the OP based on his desires...and also if he has the willingness to invest time, effort and money...just to get a little "warmth" effect.

Also, he has no clue about tape decks and what to look/listen for...so I'm not sure how much he would ascertain from "testing" the deck at the seller's place...and that listing he's looking at already states "For Parts, Not Working".

But even if it was "working"...he would still have to get into the whole alignment, calibration and maintenance process if he really wants the deck to add something good to his DAW tracks....something many tape-newbs only find that out the hard way after they've spent the money.
He said he doesn't want "complicated"....

Yes, but that's what we are here for... not only to answer questions, but also to enlighten people about what questions to ask and the direction to go. Thus my advise for the OP to explore further than his initial idea... learn how to mix to tape the right way and open up a whole new world of sonic possibilities. There are no cheats in great music... there are no plugs for this. He is using a DAW, so he already has complicated! Anyway, this is another case in which an OP with limited knowledge needs direction and a way out of the status quo. Everyone is a recording noob at some point. There will always be new things to discover and use successfully like so many of us do. The OP is not setting his sights high enough.

 

[JakJak]

Thanks for that.

Are there any final thoughts / conclusions?

As I am a bit unsure as to which direction to go in; whether I should get a stereo tape machine, 4 track one or just to keep with my current system and keep digital.

 

[kip4]

I use a revox A77 in my hybrid studio system 2 track 7.5/15 ips.
Initially bought to use as a mastering machine as the op intends and i tried it and have used it thus.
Tape machines need a lot of TLC and regular servicing and the parts are getting harder to find.
remember that people stopped using R2R domestically over 30+ yrs ago.
I use my machine to record guitars and master drum tracks, record vocal takes mainly now.
Have you thought about the cost of the tape?
Have you done some research on service costs.
Theres an awful lot to consider really. I'm not trying to put you off i wouldnt be without my tape machine. I love it.
Seriously consider if the tape machine is what you need and will perform the task you expect it to do also.
Look at all the options mentioned above and take your time.
I hope you find what is going to work best for you
Rich.

 

[Beck]

Thanks for that.

Are there any final thoughts / conclusions?

As I am a bit unsure as to which direction to go in; whether I should get a stereo tape machine, 4 track one or just to keep with my current system and keep digital.

Yes... very important to stay in the research phase for a while before making a purchase. You could buy something now, but best to wait until you're more familiar with the options. The good news is once you have a good working analog deck, properly aligned, it will stay that way for many years, depending on the hours you put on it.

A smart informed tape deck purchase will pay for itself in no time and outlast many a DAW to come. Your current DAW and your next one and your next will be obsolete long before your tape machine will be, as many of us have experienced over the years doing both analog and digital. The total cost of ownership of staying current with digital is far more costly than using analog.

There are many ways to use analog in your workflow. Starting out perfecting the mixdown phase is as good a place to start as any. IMO no matter how you work in the future, mixdown is a critcal process where analog tape can make a big difference. I track to analog and digital, and then mix those tracks down to analog half-track (2-track). Others do things differently by mixing and mastering ITB... and it seems to work for them.

Once you have an analog deck, even two tracks, you can take advantage of what tape can do for certain instruments in the tracking phase, and then use it for mixdown as well. Hang around for a bit and let the thread develop... allow more people to weigh in with model suggestions and experiences.

 

[miroslav]

Yes, but that's what we are here for... not only to answer questions, but also to enlighten people about what questions to ask and the direction to go. Thus my advise for the OP to explore further than his initial idea... learn how to mix to tape the right way and open up a whole new world of sonic possibilities. There are no cheats in great music... there are no plugs for this. He is using a DAW, so he already has complicated! Anyway, this is another case in which an OP with limited knowledge needs direction and a way out of the status quo. Everyone is a recording noob at some point. There will always be new things to discover and use successfully like so many of us do. The OP is not setting his sights high enough.

That's all good...
I don't have any issue with guiding/helping newbs to higher ground when I can, especially for anyone who wants to seriously get involved with analog and tape.
You know I've made tons of post trying to do that for those who asked for it, just like you have and others here in the Analog forum.

I was simply responding to the OPs basic question/need....he never asked or stated that he was looking to get into any elaborate analog/tape SOP...he just asked about bouncing from DAW to tape for some "warmth".
Someone mentioned about getting a multi-track, and he said that was going to be too complicated.
So with that in mind...I still say, get a plug and move on.

On the other hand, if he wants to get involved with a serious tape recording SOP....we're here to help.
I would just hate to "nudge" someone into buying tape decks and analog consoles until they really understand what they are getting into.
I don't think he's quite sure yet which direction to go in.

Are there any final thoughts / conclusions?

As I am a bit unsure as to which direction to go in; whether I should get a stereo tape machine, 4 track one or just to keep with my current system and keep digital.

I think you need to ask more questions and be clear about your goals, and then come to some final thoughts conclusions... before asking "what should I buy?"
I've seen a lot of guys run out and drop cash on a tape deck and/or console, etc...looking to add some analog/tape "mojo" to their recordings...and 6 months later they are selling it back on eBay because they realized it was too involved and/or there were many aspects of an OTB rig that they didn't consider once they stepped out of the "safety & comfort" of their ITB rig.
Don't be that guy. Think about what you are *really* after, and how far you are willing to go for it....then pull the trigger.
We'll be here to help.
Recording and mixing in the analog domain can be fun and also provide another sonic palette to pick from....but you have to really get into the analog domain. Just tossing a little "tape" at a completely digital production isn't really going to add any analog/tape "mojo". Ideally you would want to do the bulk of your work in analog on the tracking end, and again on the mixing end (this is what Beck was getting at) in order to get that analog/tape "mojo".

Tell us your longterm goals...

 

[toddyjoe]

I went through a stage of trying to warm up synth-based music with an analog tape deck and will throw out another cheaper and maybe workable option for you: find a cheap but working 1/4" consumer stereo reel to reel. Most of these units play 7" reels and have two heads, one head sharing recording and playback duties and one dedicated erase head. Sometimes you see these advertised as a "4 track" because they can record four tracks on 1/4" tape but that almost always means they record two tracks in one direction and then you flip the tape over to record two tracks in the opposite direction like a cassette tape. Look for one that has a setting for 7.5 i.p.s. (inches per second). You should be able to find a working one and a few old tapes to go with it within your price range.

Why a consumer machine with old tape? There are millions of them out there for sale at garage sales, estate sales, Craigslist, Ebay, etc. and you can usually find a working one for cheap and often with a few old tapes with it. These machines usually have little to no adjustments for levels, EQ, etc. on them for prior owners to mess with, and a combination play/record head will always be in alignment with itself for recording and playback of the same tape on the same machine. In other words, as long as you use appropriate tape formulas for your machine you are usually going to be calibrated and aligned close enough for getting some "tape" effect. Appropriate tape usually means old and/or used tape on 7" reels that you can find for $5 per reel or much, much less -- not new, expensive formulas that cost much more. Simply route a stereo mix out of your digital DAW system through your Motu to the inputs for the two stereo tracks on the consumer deck, set the recording levels to peak just under or just above 0 db on the tape deck depending upon your preferred level of "warmth," record your mix on the tape deck, then rewind the tape and play it back into your digital DAW system and you are done. No need to line up tracks, no worry about latency or delay associated with simultaneous monitoring on a three-head machine, no need for extra sync/SMPTE/MIDI equipment, no need to pay for perfect calibration/alignment of the tape deck before you get started.... just simple.

The combination of an old consumer stereo deck running old tape at 7.5" usually means a bump in bass frequencies, limited bandwidth on both the lower frequencies and the higher frequencies, and limited headroom in the electronics and tape which means you sometimes get a degree of non-linearity and distortion of the signal. Some folks associate these characteristics as making things "fat" or adding analog "warmth" or even making things "lo-fi" if you push the levels. Either way, you will definitely hear the effect. Maybe you will like it and want to dig deeper into more nuances of the tape sound, or maybe you will find you do not like it and will not be out much money, or maybe you will realize that a better-quality but more subtle tape sound will come with a greater investment of time and money. For me, this approach got the desired result when I needed it to and when I was much newer to the analog world.

The Revox suggestion is good, but I think the Revox is more machine than you need: more expensive; more complicated in terms of operation, alignment and calibration; more difficult to find; and more high-quality in sound and thus, more subtle in the effect it will impart.

Just my two cents.

 

[Beck]

A home stereo reel-to-reel can be an option as stated above, but you will often find them to be a bit more complicated than a straight half-track mastering deck. Not that it matters. Nothing here is so complicated that it can't be easily understood and used. Many consumer decks, especially later generation will have many options for bias, EQ and in some cases noise reduction on the front panel. A professional half-track on the other hand is generally set for a type of tape internally and left alone. There are a few out there that are switchable for more than one tape type and level, but most are not.

Always best to buy new tape, whether it is current manufacture or new-old-stock. Once a tape is open and has been kicking around for a while its impossible to know what type of tape is on the reel. Buy it sealed... even if its 30 years old or more it will perform like new. It depends on the type of tape as there are some to avoid. If you have used tapes from years ago that you opened yourself and you know what they are, then yes those would be fine.

Get the best performing tape machine you can find and afford... and then if you want a more exaggerated "tape effect" you can accomplish that with lowering the speed to 7.5 ips and/or hitting the tape harder for some saturation effect.