New PA system in church...Help me spend $10,000

thajeremy

thajeremy

registered abuser
Im not sure which forum to post this in so i will post it in a couple of them...

I was just asked to help my friend set up the new PA system in his church. He was given a $10,000 to $12,000 budget. I walked off the area of the church and it is about 3200 sq. ft. give or take a little. They already have one 15' main speaker in the center of the ceiling which is powered by I think a 400w amp. They want to keep it there. We are pretty much free to buy what ever we need but have been asked to stick as close as possible to the budget. We have already ordered a 100' snake (12 X 4). There will be a small sound room...about 12 X 8....not very big. The interrior of the church is being re-modeled at the moment so it should be fairly easy to do any wireing.

Here is the layout as told to me by my friend:

mic 1, dynamic: Preacher
mics 2 & 3: condensers: Choir
mics 4,5,6: stage left, channel 4 will be the drums, they will be mixed down into a 4 channel mixer and into channel 4 of the main mixer, 2 dynamic(one bass, one guitar)
mics 7,8,9: stage right: 1 condensor(piano) 2 dynamic(organ, vocal)
mics 10 - 12: 3 dynamic (vocals)

we also will need one choir monitor, and I think one monitor on each side of the stage will be enough for the guitar, bass, and drums on one side, and piano/organ on the other...so a total of 3...but that can change if we need more.

Im not sure if each mic fits the application in this situation and I told him that I would post here and get as many ideas as I could before we go to Sam Ashe tomorrow and start buying stuff. We need to buy everything as soon as possible; mixer(s), power amps, mics, cables, any processors we need such as compressors or EQ's....EVERYTHING.

We are looking at the Mackie CFX16
2 PV900 power amps
one AKG C1000 for guitar
bass probably direct
Shure PG drum mic package (nothing fancy)
still up in the air is the condensors for the piano and the choir
I think the organ will be direct out
also..im not sure if we need a dynamic or condensor for the preacher

Think i would need compressors? how bout an EQ?

Please...any suggestions for any alternatives???

I know this is a lot...i hope i didnt leave anything out...if i did...ill probably realize it after i submit this...ill fix it then...:)

Thanks for any help
Jeremy
 
As you know I'm a sound contractor so I can really point you in the right direction. I work with churches all over the Southeastern US. I need to know the size of the church, ceiling height, style of music and instruments, number of choir member, type of church (ie. Baptist, Lutheran) and how many members.
 
im not sure about the ceiling hight or the number of choir members. It is a Baptist church. Im not a member of the church by my friend is and he asked for my help so Id have to speak to him to get all the info you need. as far as instruments, accoustic guitar, electric bass, and a small set of pearl drums...really small, but the average set ( snare, kick, 3 toms, highhats, and one cymbal) not sure the model or anything. as far as style...once again, cant help right now but i will find out everything i can as soon as i can. we are planning to go to a music store tomorrow and get as much as we can as far as stuff we KNOW we need such as cables, power amps and maybe a few mics...maybe even the mixer.
 
thajeremy said:
We have already ordered a 100' snake (12 X 4). There will be a small sound room...about 12 X 8....not very big. The interrior of the church is being re-modeled at the moment so it should be fairly easy to do any wireing.
Click to expand...

If you can run wiring in the walls & floor, then forget about the snake, just hardwire everything. You don't want to have to bother with long cable runs going to the snake.
 
i am looking at some prices on rolls of cable, we are considering using custom plates. 2 on each side of the Pulpit for the instruments..so a total of 4 XLR's on each side. one plate in the center for the Preacher's mic and just running the choir's OH's straight into the ceiling because they will hang down anyway.

would this do the trick for the mics or would i need something bigger?

http://www.carvin.com/products/single.php?ItemNumber=SH1003&CID=M/S/C
 
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thajeremy said:
i am looking at some prices on rolls of cable, we are considering using custom plates. 2 on each side of the Pulpit for the instruments..so a total of 4 XLR's on each side. one plate in the center for the Preacher's mic and just running the choir's OH's straight into the ceiling because they will hang down anyway.

would this do the trick for the mics or would i need something bigger?

http://www.carvin.com/products/single.php?ItemNumber=SH1003&CID=M/S/C
Click to expand...

You can buy bulk snake cable, run that to a junction box near the pulpit or some other central location, then split off single cables from there.

Actually 20AWG is pretty heavy mic cable. You can get away with 22 or 24AWG for installed sound, since the wire ain't going anywhere.

You will also need speaker wire, 14 or 16 AWG, depending on how long your runs are.
 
well...if im not using the snake...then i can have the power amps in the sound room correct (I was told not to run power through a snake)? so what size speaker cable would i need to run say 75 feet away?
 
You would have a much easier time if this was posted in just one place. You could read all the answers at once. :cool:

I know you are in a hurry. Probably too much of a hurry. :)
 
You can get special mic cable for install work that is much thinner and more durable than regular stuff. It is also cheaper.
 
thajeremy said:
well...if im not using the snake...then i can have the power amps in the sound room correct (I was told not to run power through a snake)? so what size speaker cable would i need to run say 75 feet away?
Click to expand...

75 feet is pretty long. Use 12 gauge. That gives you about 2% power loss into an 8 ohm box. Pretty good.
 
deepwater said:
As you know I'm a sound contractor so I can really point you in the right direction. I work with churches all over the Southeastern US. I need to know the size of the church, ceiling height, style of music and instruments, number of choir member, type of church (ie. Baptist, Lutheran) and how many members.
Click to expand...

Ok, I've just got to know. Why would Lutherans need different equipment than, let's say, Baptists? What about Mormons or even Seventh Day Adventists?

Doug
 
dcarlton said:
Ok, I've just got to know. Why would Lutherans need different equipment than, let's say, Baptists? What about Mormons or even Seventh Day Adventists?

Doug
Click to expand...
Actually, they quite possibly could. While there are notable exceptions to the rule, there are general factors of the needs in the service that are specific to different denominations, and there can be very wide differences in what is considered acceptable in both volume and musical style. At a Baptist church I've been to frequently, each service is almost exactly the same format as the one before it. Welcome, choir comes out and sings, short story of something or other, special music, message, final closing song, announcements, prayer, the end. On the other hand, at the Evangelical Free church I go to most of the time, the service can be drastically different from one week to the next, requiring much more dynamic and versatile equipment and configuration.
 
thajeremy said:
Alexi said:
please dont use c1000's
Click to expand...
any reason you can give? I have heard good stuff about it...
Click to expand...

A few places and people like the C1000, but you will find that most places on the net (and very specifically here), the C1000 is very much frowned upon. The experience has been that in almost every application, the C1000 has sounded extremely sterile and harsh. In every thread I've seen so far regarding the C1000, it was found that some other equally priced (or even cheaper) mic could do a much better job.
 
crazydoc said:
And this would be how many potential customers there might be for audio and sound equipment?
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I used to do this kind of work. Word of mouth rules! Many installs came from music store customers in churches, and many customers from satisfied parishes. :)
 
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