New/NOS vs "Used" Tape...?

[miroslav]

That last line about hit or miss is why I avoid used tape. The money spent on each miss could have gone toward new sealed tape.

Yes...that could be the case, and might be more warranted for the smaller formats, as the price difference between new, NOS and used is often a lot closer.
With 2"...a new or NOS reel is normally in the $250-$300 range. That's what they sell for...and there's no one you're going to complain to that's going to make them sell for less.

So...between taking a chance on what appears to be decent used 2" tape at say $25-$30/reel VS new/NOS at $250-$300 per reel....I don't have a problem taking a chance on the used from time to time.
Of course...some research, some discussion with the seller...and hey, eBay/PayPal offer full buyer protection for items that don't meet the descriptions or for seller promises that are not met. So if they sell it as good tape and you get SSS...you can get your money back even the seller has a "no refund" policy.
I've gotten 2-3 refunds from "no refund" sellers...AND I made them include all the shipping both ways. It wasn't for tape, but I'm just saying that the "risk" really is minimal if you know your way around eBay and have a good standing with them and PayPal.

That said...the seller that I was getting the 4 reels of NOS 2" 499 earlier at $125 each...just told me that he has another 2 NOS reels that he found.
Actually, I think it's a she, and it looks like it's all maybe her ex's or someone who passed that was into audio/video judging by the other items that she had for sale. She seems very nice and I'm certain she's not a scammer....and I first had PayPal check her account standing before I sent any money...and yes, they said I was covered with buyer protection....so, again...no real risk, a hassle maybe worst case, but I will not lose any money (knock on wood ).

 

[Beck]

Yes, good point... there certainly is enough difference between narrower tape like 1/4 and 1/2 compared to 2" that it makes them different animals all together. That being said, since the death of major studios a lot more private/project studios and hobbyists have taken the 2" plunge. So there's more questionable 2" tape out there than before. But yeah, at that price if you can get 2 or 3 hits of really great tape for every miss you're still doing good. As for me though the unknowns are still troubling. I don't own one reel of used tape that I didn't open myself... and I have a lot of tape... like enough to get me through the End Times and then maybe even a little into Eternity.

 

[miroslav]

Well I inherited the bulk of my used 2" tape when I got the MX-80...it wasn't originally part of the deal, then when I got to his house, he just said...take it...take it all. I think he had a Jesus moment and realized that it was a good opportunity to just unload it all rather than trying to sell the used tapes individually....and hey, I already paid him a decent price for the deck.
Heck...he threw in the tapes, 2-3 boxes of spare parts, a box of cables...etc was nice.

I've purchased maybe another 10 reels used.
I got one lot of half dozen reels of 996 all from one guy...it was his band's 15 minutes of fame, so that stuff was strictly a one project use. Then I picked up another 3-4 off of eBay as they looked clean, and they were very cheap...and they ended up being decent. I think of my used purchases there was one real with a bit sticky, but once I ran it and cleaned the tape with a couple of passes, it came out smooth after that.

All the real shit used tape came with the MX-80.
Apart from like 20 reels of good used 499, he also gave me 10 reels of 456, of which 6 were shit, and a couple kinda shit....two are actually smooth as silk and no SSS, and I have some NOS Quantegy 456.

The rest of my stock...that I've been buying lately... has been all NOS.
With tonight's purchase of 6 reels of 499...and another 3 a couple of weeks back, plus another 3 a couple of months ago...I've added a dozen NOS reels of 499 to my stock.
Like you say...I have tape to the "End of Times" for my own personal use (I mean 5-6 songs/reel times 40-50 reels, and I got a lot of recording still left to do)...
...and whatever is left when I go...I'll have FedEx ship it to me on the other side.

My main continued obsession...and man, it IS an obsession ...is that I don't want to fall short of tape if I get going on some outside projects, or who knows what the next 15-20 years will bring.

Worst case...I can sell on eBay whatever is left over!!!

 

[Beck]

One good thing today and has been a game changer is that since (Like it or not) our end medium is going to be digital we don't have to keep multitrack sessions on analog. Some I may, but after everything is complete I usually am fine with just a digital copy of the individual tracks via the Echo Laylas I like so much. But I will keep half-track analog masters, and I have a lot more 1/4" tape for that, so it all works out.

There is something to be said about buying used tape or known bad tape just for the reels. I will do that when the price is so low it's worth the reels alone. And you can sometimes get a nice surprise that the tape is ok too, but no loss if it is not. I'd pay $15.00 - $20.00 for a sealed pristine metal reel for 1/4" or 1/2" tape. Some people will pay more And in the past I have bought grab bag type lots of new and used tape because the new tape was well worth the price. That's another scenario one might find the used tape is ok too, but again no loss if it's not and you have some good metal reels.

My buying habits are always tempered by my extensive study of sticky-shed, having delved deeply into that whole mess up to my elbows. After the experimenting I did with various tapes and experiencing the worst SSS known to man I'm too tired to go through all that cleaning after encountering a really messed up tape. It can be a nightmare cleanup depending on the tape. Now that I have brand new heads recently on my TSR-8 I'm treating them so they will last forever, which they might have to. A new head like that from Tascam is a big investment. So now I have a basically like new TSR-8 and I want to baby it. Among other things that means feeding it the best tape I can afford. Same with my 32 and one of my 22-2 decks. All new heads in the last year or two.

 

[LToro]

You guys can record to two tapes, one used the other one new, and see if you hear any differences, lost of high, mid or low bands? I dunno that's what we do around here, spectral analizing in the computer at playback?

 

[miroslav]

One good thing today and has been a game changer is that since (Like it or not) our end medium is going to be digital we don't have to keep multitrack sessions on analog.

I'm not obsessed any more with keeping those multi-track tape sessions like in the old days where those tapes were the only thing you could work off of.
Once I do my tracking to tape...I am transferring everything to the DAW. It is the DAW files that I keep, make safety copies of and ultimately archive.
The original tape multi-track sessions I will leave on the reel, as sometimes I may come back to it if I want to re-track something or when I want to add more tracks to the project. So in either case I may end up erasing some of the duplicate takes in order to re-track or add...and then I dump them over to the DAW too.
I will leave those multi-track tapes as-is until comes a time when I may need the tape for another use (at this point highly unlikely)...but I'm not obsessed with saving them as something important that needs to be saved. IOW...by the time I'm past any possible tracking, and have transferred all to DAW that I needed...those tape sessions are not really important any more.

That said, I've done some tape-only sessions...and may do some more again in the future...so those tapes/sessions I do makes sure to keep.

 

[lonewhitefly]

Speaking of helping the community, I just scored this lot:

Scotch 3M 207 1 4" 1700' Polyester Tape 24 Reels New Pro Pack | eBay

... 24 reels of Scotch 207, 7" 1700 ft. I only need about 6 of them, so PM me if anyone is looking for some 207. The single reels for sale on eBay at the moment are all about $15-$20/ea + shipping ... more than I'm comfortable paying. $10/reel is what I consider fair.

The seller says they're NOS but unsealed, and that this particular configuration was not offered sealed (I've not heard of this ... Beck, can you confirm?). Since they're in the original shipping cartons, my gut tells me they are legit NOS. I'll probably be able to tell by the little sticker seal if they're truly unused when I get them.

 

[lonewhitefly]

That last line about hit or miss is why I avoid used tape. The money spent on each miss could have gone toward new sealed tape.



That day might come for all of us, but there is so much NOS tape on eBay, Craigslist and facebook Market Place I won't buy used and I won't buy new either. ATR and RMGI are out of the question for price alone.

Maybe this should be another topic for another thread, but one thing this industry/hobby needs is activism. eBay is full of NOS tape at ridiculously high prices. Those sellers should hear from all of us that what they're doing is not cool. The fact is there is no tape shortage, tape is not rare, and the prices are not justified. Buyers should know this too. Both panic buyers and greedy sellers are fanning the flames.

We (as a community) also have to get better at contacting sellers if it is not the tape they said it was and demanding refund. Those of us who can smell the difference have the advantage of course. Even if a seller doesn't officially take returns, eBay terms pretty much make it that every seller must take returns under many circumstances.

Yeh there's plenty of tape out there ... it's just a matter of finding it when you need it. I sold my stash of NOS 1/4" 202, 203 and 1" 206 to the guy who bought my Ampex gear to use with the machines. Of course, I cut him a deal since he's a friend of my former bandmate.

I thought I was out of the reel business, but I need some 7" reels for a Fostex 80 I'm using to get an album project finished (... and for the final mix when the time comes). I went with Scotch 207, mainly because everything else I can find at the moment is priced sky-high. And it's a good, solid American tape with a special 'Scotch' sound I like.

 

[Beck]

I went with Scotch 207, mainly because everything else I can find at the moment is priced sky-high. And it's a good, solid American tape with a special 'Scotch' sound I like.

Scotch 207 (and 206) is great stuff! I use it because I like it! 207 is my preferred tape for the Tascam 22-2 and I recommend it for other machines using 1.0 mil, like the Tascam 388, Fostex A8, Model 80, R8, etc. I recommend Ampex/Quantegy 407 and Maxell XLI 35-90B as well, but 207 is def one of my favs of all time.

All that I have now is sealed gold wrapper, but I remember the brown boxes like you have from the 1980's and it is true they were not always sealed on the outside. The only brown box Scotch anything I have right now are two reels of 1/4" leader tape made in 1885 and they did not have a plastic wrap around them when I bought them new. The seal that holds down the tape should be perfectly smooth and there should be a few feet of leader tape.

If you have any doubts pull a couple reels randomly from the box and play them with noise reduction off. Using headphones crank it up enough to hear tape hiss and then really crank it to listen for faint music or speech... whatever might be on them if they were used. A tape eraser won't always degauss completely, so you might hear some residual signal at high volumes. ** Caution ** Probably best to listen to those tapes all the way through first at normal listening levels in the event they were used and the music is still there full volume.

I'm sure they're new as the seller described. I almost bid on that lot myself because that is a steal of a deal even at the $200.00 asking price. But I have about 20 NOS reels of 1/4" 207, so I decided to pass. With 1700 feet you'll have about a minute and a half less recording time as the standard 1800 @ 15 ips. No big deal

Great score! You made out like a bandit!

 

[lonewhitefly]

Scotch 207 (and 206) is great stuff! I use it because I like it! 207 is my preferred tape for the Tascam 22-2 and I recommend it for other machines using 1.0 mil, like the Tascam 388, Fostex A8, Model 80, R8, etc. I recommend Ampex/Quantegy 407 and Maxell XLI 35-90B as well, but 207 is def one of my favs of all time.

All that I have now is sealed gold wrapper, but I remember the brown boxes like you have from the 1980's and it is true they were not always sealed on the outside. The only brown box Scotch anything I have right now are two reels of 1/4" leader tape made in 1885 and they did not have a plastic wrap around them when I bought them new. The seal that holds down the tape should be perfectly smooth and there should be a few feet of leader tape.

If you have any doubts pull a couple reels randomly from the box and play them with noise reduction off. Crank it up enough to hear tape hiss and then really crank it to listen for faint music or speech... whatever might be on them if they were used. A tape eraser won't always degauss completely, so you might hear some residual signal at high volumes.

I'm sure they're new as the seller described. I almost bid on that lot myself because that is a steal of a deal even at the $200.00 asking price. But I have about 20 NOS reels of 1/4" 207, so I decided to pass. With 1700 feet you'll have about a minute and a half less recording time as the standard 1800 @ 15 ips. No big deal

Great score! You made out like a bandit!

Thanks for the info!

Yeh I always liked the Scotch sound. I used (mostly) 206 on my 1", and 202/203 on my 1/4" Ampex machines. I've used 207 in the past on the 22-2 when I had it.

I considered RMGI LPR-35 for a minute, and actually submitted an order ... but the shop said they're out of stock for a couple weeks ... anyway, the total price for a few reels was about the same as I got this lot for.

Yeh I thought the 1700 thing was wacky, but probably won't matter.

 

[miroslav]

I sold my stash of NOS 1/4" 202, 203 and 1" 206 to the guy who bought my Ampex gear to use with the machines.

I say you mention this earlier in another thread about selling off your tape gear.

So what happened? That's to bad you had to let it go.
Is that the same vintage Ampex deck you got from Sunset Sound?
I remember when you got...wasn't it just a couple of years ago or so?

Are you still going to keep recording...just not to tape, or are you done with it all for the most part?

 

[lonewhitefly]

I say you mention this earlier in another thread about selling off your tape gear.

So what happened? That's to bad you had to let it go.
Is that the same vintage Ampex deck you got from Sunset Sound?
I remember when you got...wasn't it just a couple of years ago or so?

Are you still going to keep recording...just not to tape, or are you done with it all for the most part?

Hey, thanks for asking ...

Yeh the Ampex 8-track from Sunset Sound, along with a 440 stereo and 440 mono deck. They went to a good home. I got the 8-track and 2-track in Oct 2012 ... I had the mono machine since 2010. I was working with a Teac 80-8 (and briefly, a Scully 280 1/2" 4-track) up until that point. I completed one album on the Ampex 8-track in Oakland, then moved to Portland. The deck broke down, and I couldn't find a tech to really get it working. So, after being out of commission so long, I decided to scale things back. Moving these decks around is crazy, and I decided the next time I move them will be the last time. These things are just too large, and I want to have the option of mobility. I'd been recording stuff to the 2-track for awhile, and I have a lot of recordings on 1" 8-track I'm going to transfer to a Fostex 80 1/4" 8-track (portable!), and finish it from there. After that, probably back to 4-track cassette. The simplicity of cassette is something that's really appealing after all the gear I've been using.

That said, I wouldn't rule out another Scully 280 4-track in the future, in the right situation. All in all, that was probably my favorite machine!

 

[miroslav]

Well I guess if you are OK with it...if the changes appeal to you and you don't mind downsizing, then it's a good thing in the end.


Good luck with your recording.

 

[lonewhitefly]

thanks! ... yeh I love those machines, but it's ultimately a means to an end for me. The records I cut on all the different decks sound fairly similar to one another. That said, I'm not interested in going digital at any point !

 

[jpmorris]

thanks! ... yeh I love those machines, but it's ultimately a means to an end for me. The records I cut on all the different decks sound fairly similar to one another. That said, I'm not interested in going digital at any point !

What are you doing with the masters in formats you can no longer read?

 

[lonewhitefly]

What are you doing with the masters in formats you can no longer read?

I've still got all of the 1/2" and 1" multis, and the 1/4" mix masters. You never know, in case I might want to have them remixed one day. I doubt I would ever attempt a remix myself. I put most of the worthy outtakes on the last album we released.

 

[jpmorris]

I've still got all of the 1/2" and 1" multis, and the 1/4" mix masters. You never know, in case I might want to have them remixed one day. I doubt I would ever attempt a remix myself. I put most of the worthy outtakes on the last album we released.

Okay, great. I was afraid you might want to chuck them or something...

 

[lonewhitefly]

hahaha ... no I'm gonna hold onto them !!!

 

[Hammerstone]

I've always bought NOS tape myself, in fact I've bought maybe two dozen reels over the last few years and not touched my 2340 since 2013 since I got my Tascam 244 up and running. I do see 2" used tape for crazy low prices here and there and if I had something to feed that tape to I might take the risk, but for 1/4" I see no point.

I do however keep tabs on what certain tapes go for, and for some reason Maxell tape sells for crazy prices even on opened reels.

 

[miroslav]

So the 6 reels of NOS 499 arrived to day...and they are 100% NOS virgin tape.

They came from a NYC studio/mastering house. I'm assuming the studio has gone to pure mastering, and these were just leftover stock and of no need anymore. I see the equipment list shows an Otari 2" 24-track (no model mentioned)...not sure how current the list is (or the website info).

Welcome to TurtleTone Studio, Your Audio Mastering Boutique

The owner/mastering engineer (Michael Fossenkemper) seems to have quite an extensive credit list. His name and studio address was on my shipping lable.....but the whole time I was negotiating the purchase, I had some woman's name and cryptic email. I guess everyone is trying to keep a low profile on eBay.
Same thing with the reels I got a few weeks back from The Village Recorder in LA...the eBay ID is something else.

Anyway, the purchase set me back a nice chunk-o-chnage...but I'm happy I grabbed them and upped my NOS stock.