New Mackie VLZ mixers

H

hairylarry

New member
Hi,

Has anyone used the new Mackies? Or maybe at least have a link to a real review. I read the review in the Musician's Friend catalog and it read exactly like the ad.

The old 1202s - $200

The new 1202s - $300

Now if it really is better preamps and eq it's hard not to spend the extra hundred. But the old VLZ Pros are supposed to have great preamps. And for me it's all about the preamps.

So I just don't know. does anyone?

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
If it's "all about the preamps" - the VLZ is defintely the wrong place to be looking. None of the VLZ are great preamps. I wouldn't even say they were good. But they're usable if you need the channels.
 
Preamps

Dot,

I appreciate your input. You have helped me before.

Before I joined homerecording BBS I didn't know anything about preamps. I had bought a Fostex VF160 and I was looking for info on microphones. On the perennial budget preamp thread the DMP3s were highly recommended. And I learned the DMP2s are similar with no meters.

Since $160 was high for me I bought a DMP2. And that's how I learned it was all about the preamps. All of my mics sounded better through the DMP2.

So this is what I have now.

Two DMP2s (four channels), 1 VTB1 (1 channel), and the two Fostex preamps on my VF160. So that's seven out of eight and I rarely use all eight channels in. I like all three of these options.

Before I bought the VTB1 or whyseye gave me the other DMP2 I tried a little Yamaha MG10/2. Their preamps didn't live up to my expectations so I got rid of it. Like I told soundwoman why should I have it if I never want to plug a microphone into it.

I have never used the Mackie mixers but their preamps have been recommended. Maybe your definition of high quality is more stringent than mine or maybe I have been misrecommended.

I guess the next step up from the Mackies might be the Soundcraft Spirit mixers. Their preamps and eq have also been recommended. But they are higher to buy.

Basically my bottom line is this. If the mixer preamps aren't going to be as clean and transparent as the DMP2s I'm not interested.

Recommendations?

Thanks for your input,

Hairy Larry
 
The question is

Ironklad, Dot, and all,

I was under the impression that VLZ Pros and now the new VLZ Mackie mixers have really good preamps. Dot and Ironklad both seem to question that assumption.

I like my DMP2s and use them all the time. I think my VTB1 and my Fostex VF160 preamps are both good too. Clean and transparent is my criteria.

The question is what mixer can I buy that will not be a step down preampwise? Evidently not the Mackie VLZ series.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
well, i'm not questioning that the vlz's will have useable(if not good) preamps

i DO question, however, whether those pres will be better than even lower-priced outboard pres...you have to realize that if you're cramming 8 preamps plus all the summing and routing and other stuff for a mixer into a single box for $300, you're not going to be able to use the greatest of components

compare it to a cheaper outboard pre...even something that's $150 for 2 channels will have $75 worth of labor/parts in each, indicating that it will likely(but not necessarily) have a better sound to it
 
1202 VLZ3 Reviews

Ironklad,

I understand exactly what you're saying and I appreciate your input. The 1202 VLZ3 mixer has only 4 mic preamps and runs $300. For eight preamps you have to go to the 1642 at $600.

Everyone has a different definition of what is usable. Mine is that when I compare it to my DMP2s they don't suck. The DMP2 and DMP3 are not expensive preamps and this shouldn't be too high of a bar to cross.

I find the two preamps in my Fostex deck and the preamp in my VTB1 fit this description. Depending on what I'm recording (mostly acoustic guitar) sometimes I can't tell the difference between the Fostex preamps and my DMP2s. I would describe the VTB1 like this, clean and crisp with a lot of gain but maybe not as transparent as the DMP2s. On one test comparing the VTB1 and the DMP2 I definitely liked the DMP2 better and soundwoman definitely liked the VTB1 better. This is with no tube engaged in the VTB1. I really haven't found any use for the tube distortion yet.

I have read about the quality of the preamps in the Mackie VLZ series in many reviews and many posts. Then the VLZ Pro series had even better preamps called XDR. According to Doug Thompson and Mackies ads the VLZ3 has even better preamps called XDR2.

Now Doug Thompson's review is in the Musician's Friend catalog so you can't expect him to say anything bad about a new product they are trying to sell. He does say, "The new XDR2 mic preamps are the best I've heard in this price range. They are superbly transparent and offer tremendous headroom versus the original XDR pres." He also praises the EQ on the new decks.

The Mackie ads have a cute story about how their engineer wouldn't take a vacation because he was so busy improving the preamps.

Hence my questions.

Are the XDR2 preamps actually a lot better than the XDR preamps or is this just new product marketing hype?

Are either of these preamps comparable to the DMP2/3 preamps or will I have to go to a more expensive mixer to get that level of quality from the inboard preamps.

Would that mixer be a Soundcraft Spirit M4 or what would anyone here recommend?

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
Given the choices you have listed, and given that your primary focus is on the quality of the preamps, I would recommend the Soundcraft......no questions asked!

I have owned Mackies, I still own a Mackie, it's ok it's not bad, certainly should not be bashed (compared to what other junk is out there) but it aint the latest and the greatest I've ever heard either. IMO, Mackie boards are better suited for live sound where rugged matters more than sound quality.

I've not owned Soundcraft, but have seen it and heard it in action, it is no slouch. I dont know if it will match or outperform your DMP's as I've never touched the DMP, but it will definitely impress you more than the Mackie board will.

I own my Mackie board because I got it mint used and I was impressed by the 24 channel thing. If I had money to burn and no mixer, I would not buy another Mackie.
 
I've used the original XDRs, and I wouldn't quite bash them as much as others here have, nor would I praise them however. I find they're quite sterile in the treble and bass, and lacking clarity, however, they are pretty clean. I haven't used the XDR2s, but if they are anything like the original XDRs, I would expect to hear the mentioned characteristics.
 
I wouldn't buy too much in to the Mackie propaganda machine.

They have a very good -- and active -- marketing department that spends a lot of money devising ways to convince the public that they should purchase their next wave of product so as to keep their coffers full enough to feed their retirement plans.

The Mackie uses some components in their system that may look pretty wonderful on the spec sheet, but in reality tends to produce a mildly brittle texture in the high end that can show up in certain situations if you really listen for it. Unless they've started using different components that I'm not aware of, I wouldn't be too thrilled over the prospect of owning one for the time being.

.
 
Down to one question

Hey guys,

Thanks for your honest opinions. The fact of the matter is that $300 (or even $200) is a lot of money to me in my early retirement and the last thing I want to do is buy another little mixer that I will be unhappy with.

What compact mixer with at least 4 mic preamps should I be considering? You know my criteria from above. Preamps as clean and transparent as the DMP2 or the VTB1. I am also happy with the preamps on my Fostex VF160 except that there are only two of them. And although it has a mixer it's not a mixer.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
hairylarry said:
What compact mixer with at least 4 mic preamps should I be considering? You know my criteria from above. Preamps as clean and transparent as the DMP2 or the VTB1. I am also happy with the preamps on my Fostex VF160 except that there are only two of them. And although it has a mixer it's not a mixer.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
Click to expand...

Soundcraft M4 or M8.
 
hairylarry said:
Hi,

Has anyone used the new Mackies?

So I just don't know. does anyone?
Click to expand...

Doesn't look like anyone knows from real experience, alot of opinions but no actual assessment. It's up to you Hairy, go get one or try one out & report back :)
 
just a small loan

riffy said:
Doesn't look like anyone knows from real experience, alot of opinions but no actual assessment. It's up to you Hairy, go get one or try one out & report back :)
Click to expand...

Riffy,

Loan me $300 and if I don't like the mixer I'll send it your way. :)

If I like it I'll pay you back. $10/month.

Seriously I can't afford $300 for a Mackie or $400-$500 for a used Soundcraft but I'd a lot rather spend $400 on something and be happy with it than $300 on something I don't like.

This isn't to say I've made up my mind. I'll happily read everyone's input. It's a new product so I didn't expect everyone to have one. Has anyone seen any reviews? Does anyone have other recommendations?

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
Last edited:
Hi Hairy Larry,

I rented one of the new Mackie mixers (I think it was a 1402, or something like that) this past Christmas to do some recording with my band. We ran the instruments through the Mackie and then into one of those two-channel M-Audio Audiophile sound cards (the actual name escapes me). We ran the vocals through a DMP3.

Anyway, someone mentioned that it might be nice to have some comments from someone who has actually used the line of mixers you were talking about, so I thought I'd add my two cents. Though I don't have much recording experience in general, compared to the DMP3 I found the Mackie's preamps to be a little brittle/harsh sounding. The dynamic range was pretty good, considering it's such an inexpensive mixer. All in all though, the DMP3 sounded superior to my ears, but if you're strapped for cash I would buy whatever fits your budget and allows you to record the number of tracks you want to record.

If you want to see what kind of sound quality you can get out of the Mackie, here's one of the songs that we recorded: http://www.trentsevern.com/paul/the_weight.wma

Good luck!
 
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