Neve Portico vs DMP3, VM Pro, Great River,

Middleman

Middleman

Professional Amateur
Well I have put a few hours on the Portico and as curiosity was running in several threads, I thought I would put my thoughts here.

I had the DMP3, Voicemaster Pro, Great River 1NV along with the Portico at my disposal. I used an NTK mic into all units and recorded the results. I have to say up front I messed up the test because I used a resonator on one track which covers up the vocal somewhat. This was the Great River track. This preamp was on rental and I returned it so I could not go back and redo the vocal alone. Thus, I won't post the tracks because frankly all things need to be a little more controlled. That said, if anyone is curious about comparing something you own with the Portico, ping me. I kept the files.

My other wish is that I had not used the NTK because frankly, it is a very colored mic and can make even the inexpensive DMP3 sound really good. It tends to color so much that you get caught up in its sound and for these tests minimized the differences which a non-tube mic would not have done.

Impressions:

The Portico definitely has the high end preamp sound similar to the Neve 1073 I have used on occasion. The primary similarity is the rich low-mid quality and the fine precision on the high end. Two channels of this preamp for the $1500 approx. it costs, is extremely cost effective.

The basic sound is remarkable in its smoothness. There is a highpass button and control knob which ranges from 20 to 250 Hz. Phantom power, mute and buss routing buttons are included. If you decide to use the Portico Quad buss module you can later build the preamps into a full scale mixer.

The box is very heavy, full of iron although I have not popped the hood yet to look inside. It weighs more than a Great River and about the same as a Neve 1084 I held this last week.

Quality is high but one of the pots moves a little like someone forgot to tighten the nut to seat it against the case. This bears later examination.

Comparison:

Great River - Interestingly enough, if you use the Silk button on the Portico it sounds very similar to the Great River, almost the same sonic signature. If you disable the Silk button the preamp is more colored so there is some kind of mid range scoop going on with the Silk button. The high end gets more open in the Silk mode, once again, very similar to the Great River.

I actually liked the non-silk mode better, very rich and detailed but not as transparent. This had a great ballad sound, up close and smooth. Who needs compression? (I did run the signal through a UAD LA2A and wow!)

Voicemaster Pro - This was my go-to preamp for a long time but unfortunately it just doesn't have the detail and richness of the Portico. I would say it's about 10-15% less detailed and rich than even the Great River. However there is about a 50% difference in cost so for the budget minded its still a good value.

DMP3- Simply stated, this is an amazing little preamp. I'm not going to say it came close to the Great River or Portico but it rivaled the Voicemaster Pro and was actually a bit richer on the low end. This just turns out to be a really good match for the NTK. I can say that other mics have responded better to the Voicemaster Pro. The AT4033 comes to mind.

Back to the Portico:

It's not going back, I will say that, and my days of renting the Great River and Neve 1073 are over. I need about 3 more of these, someday when I am rich. I think this is a real winner for those wanting to move up in preamps. It has a very colored and non-colored mode depending on the silk button. It may be out of the price range of beginners but for those looking for a high end sound for the least amount of money; this is a short ticket to a professional sound.

MM
 
Just one question ' Middlemann'.
Do you think you would have still bought the unit if it wasn't called the ' NEVE ' portico.What i mean is would you have bought it if it was called the ' FOCUSRITE ' -portico ???? ..or the 'UA' -portico ????.
My point is that there are a lot of kids out there thnking thy're getting a real NEVE or something when they are getting basically a bunch of chips that in no way resemble the design of the classic NEVEs.
I believe it runs a plugpack .
 
Well, those kids can be assured they are getting a Neve made by Rupert Neve even if it is called the Neve Portico 5012. By the way, yes, the reason I bought it is because it says Neve and was designed by Rupert.

Neve vintage preamps are expensive and getting harder to maintain. As years go by more modifications are being made with replacement parts. In another few years the insides of a vintage Neve won't look like the original or possibly sound like it either. At some point the vintage preamps will start to fall in value even more than they already have since the late 90s.

One of Rupert's stated goals was to shake up the market because many companies had copied his prior designs and been making money off calling their boutique preamps "Neve clones". So, I think he out-cloned them on this one.

By the way design is irrelevant if two pieces of gear sound the same or similar. Design is only relevant if one design is fatally flawed and creates negative consumer experience.

Finally, if it was a Focusrite Portico I would not have bought one. Focusrite had their shot with the Liquid Channel and have gotten dinged pretty hard for trying to sell that concept. That box sounds like a great Focusrite but falls pretty short of sounding like a Neve or UA preamp. The price on these has fallen drastically since introduction. I don't think this will happen to the Portico 5012.

Is it better than the Great River? No it is not. Is it a better value, yes it is.
 
Rodger Hartlett said:
Just one question ' Middlemann'.
Do you think you would have still bought the unit if it wasn't called the ' NEVE ' portico.What i mean is would you have bought it if it was called the ' FOCUSRITE ' -portico ???? ..or the 'UA' -portico ????.
My point is that there are a lot of kids out there thnking thy're getting a real NEVE or something when they are getting basically a bunch of chips that in no way resemble the design of the classic NEVEs.
I believe it runs a plugpack .
Click to expand...

again...thank you Mr Preamp expert, we appreciate that VALUABLE information

:rolleyes:
 
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Rodger Hartlett said:
Just one question ' Middlemann'.
Do you think you would have still bought the unit if it wasn't called the ' NEVE ' portico.What i mean is would you have bought it if it was called the ' FOCUSRITE ' -portico ???? ..or the 'UA' -portico ????.
My point is that there are a lot of kids out there thnking thy're getting a real NEVE or something when they are getting basically a bunch of chips that in no way resemble the design of the classic NEVEs.
I believe it runs a plugpack .
Click to expand...

They are getting a real Neve. Is a 2005 Fender Stratocaster any less "real" than a 1954 Strat?

Chips and transistors and tubes are not relevent to anything here. Rupert Neve does what he does and the reviews and buyers will tell us if it is great or not great. BTW, a plugpack (external power supply) if done right (not cheaply designed) is far better than an onboard supply for many reasons (some even have to do with signal integrity and heat dissapation)
 
Some excellent pro gear uses external power supplies. In my own studio I have a couple Speck XtraMix's and a Speck EQ316 that are powered externally. It does not detract from their quality or "pro" status. Likewise, large mixing boards have external power supplies, and I don't think that makes them less good.

True, there are plenty of not so great pro-sumer pieces of gear that have external power supplies, but I don't think you can say that therefore external power supplies as a whole are bad.

As far as the "Neve" thing: Rupert Neve designed the Portico and is selling it, so if that's not a real Neve then I don't know what is.
 
"Is it better than the Great River? No it is not. Is it a better value, yes it is."

Thanks for the review and info. Is the portico 2 channels? One channel of GR is around $1000... The Portico goes for almost $1500, so I assume if you like the GR better the 'value' must mean that the portico has 2 channels? Am I missing something?

Thanks again,
Frank Military
 
Frank, as you discovered, it is two channels thus my statement. The GR is a really great box and it has variable impedence which the Portico does not have. However, offering two channels of this sound for the price point is a really great value for a small studio.

Teacher, you are too funny.
 
acorec said:
They are getting a real Neve.
Is a 2005 Fender Stratocaster any less "real" than a 1954 Strat?

Chips and transistors and tubes are not relevent to anything here.
Click to expand...

just MO..I disagree 100%.
It's ALL about the materials used (and obviously the design when comparing units)????????
That goes for anything..no matter who's names on it.

the capacitors, dsps, converters, speaker windings, cone material, CPU's, recording heads, amplifier circuitry....
maybe you were just being sarcastic? sfu.

Its a REAL NEVE?
so what does that fhkng mean?

Is a 2005 Stratocaster less "real" than a 1954?

most likely they are two very different sounding instruments (again due to the pickups, windings..in short materials.)
I've played a 1958 and a 2004 and yes they sound very different...
my neoighbor sold his 58 for $12,000...my 2004 was $699.
yeah I like it?

I also like Paul McCartneys music..
but is his new stuff the same as his old stuff? No,not in my opinion.

Middleman's or HR posts mean more than the "Neve" label.

personally, i'd like to know what is "under the hood"...
on the old and new Neve stuff... and blindfold test results.

I have a friend that makes hand built Guitar effects pedals and sells them Internationally. He is obsessed with "quality materials"...military specs..minute distortions in the capacitor discharging..etc...he wouldn't have it any other way, or he wouldn't do it... its a labor of loev/fun what the fhk....
he's not trying to compete with Radio Shack specs.


am i real? i don't no anymore. i think i'm virtual at the moment?
 
"My other wish is that I had not used the NTK because frankly, it is a very colored mic and can make even the inexpensive DMP3 sound really good. "

Yeah, that's what I hate about my NTK, the way it makes my cheap pres sound good. ;)

Thanks for the portico review, my interest is piqued. I refuse to believe that Rupert Neve would sell or put his name on anything that didn't live up to his reputation. At his age and stature, I'm sure his integrity is his most prized possession, and not for sale at any price.

RD
 
Is a 2005 Fender Stratocaster any less "real" than a 1954 Strat?
Click to expand...

WHATT?????
OF COURSE IT IS !!!

They are WAY different instruments.
The older one weighs more and hence has better sustain.The pickups and fretboard are superiorr when compared to the current manufacturing.
If you seriously think the protico by Neve is anywhere in the same league as an older Neve then not only are you dreaming but IMHO you're actually a bit of a Fool.If it runs a plugpack then it's aimed for the kids who are recording from home running hobbie studios .A real pro unit has no shortcuts in its design.The problem as I feel is not its performance but whether it is overpriced and taking advantage of the consumers who don't know any better and buy it simply on the name.
A pro audio piece is built to last for years and more often is design and built around discreet components rather than cheap chips and power supplies.
I believe it's only a half-rack size.
 
Rodger Hartlett said:
If it runs a plugpack then it's aimed for the kids who are recording from home running hobbie studios .A real pro unit has no shortcuts in its design.The problem as I feel is not its performance but whether it is overpriced and taking advantage of the consumers who don't know any better and buy it simply on the name.
Click to expand...

Don't SSL's have outboard power supplies? So you believe that any unit with an outboard power supply has had shortcuts taken in it's design?

I've been reading numerous reports on various message boards from recording engineers who've bought the Neve Portico's and I don't think many of them are hobbyists, if any at all. It's mostly pros buying this thing, from what I can tell. I just don't think "consumers" are being taken advantage of here, or are even the targeted market for it.
 
Dude, Hartlett, chill out! You might want to do some research before you join a bbs and start trashing well respected long term members. :D

If you had done a little digging, you would have known that the Portico is in fact a discreet class A design, and doesn't use cheap ICs. Mr. Neve even has this whole spiel about how single-ended is better for sound quality than push-pull, even though it is inefficient. He also explains why he used a transformer in his design. All the information is easy to find so you don't have to speculate. And, so what that it's half-rack???? Are you gonna start ragging on lunchboxes next?

Who the hell says "plugpack" anyway? :p
 
If an engineer like Mr. Rupert Neve could design the products that he did in previous years, do you you not think that it would be possible for him to surpass or at least equal those designs after 30 more years of design experience. Or is the "it's not a real NEVE" based soley on the fact that you paid $8000 for a single 1073 and would be annoyed that the NEVE name is now available for less.

I am not trying to suggest that the Portico will replace all previous NEVE products or even sound just like them, But I don't know why "Vintage Guys" refuse to believe that modern technolgy could someday surpass old technology.

Besides if Rupert NEVE designed and built the Portico who is to say that it is not a NEVE???
 
MrBoogie said:
If you had done a little digging, you would have known that the Portico is in fact a discreet class A design, and doesn't use cheap ICs. Mr. Neve even has this whole spiel about how single-ended is better for sound quality than push-pull, even though it is inefficient. He also explains why he used a transformer in his design. All the information is easy to find so you don't have to speculate. And, so what that it's half-rack???? :p
Click to expand...

i need to do some digging..sounds like some good info on the why's of design choices. very interesting. no doubt Neve has Highest credibility..and a tuff record to live up to.

re-read Middleman's original post ..very good stuff, what i like best about HR.
someone who ACTUALLY testdrove the sht!

i'll shutup and listen..er, i mean read. i'll read about listening?
 
So the Great River is better than the Neve in your opinion, but just more expensive? Or about equal? Somehow after reading your first post I thought you liked the Neve better than the GR.
 
Rodger Hartlett said:
WHATT?????
OF COURSE IT IS !!!

They are WAY different instruments.
The older one weighs more and hence has better sustain.The pickups and fretboard are superiorr when compared to the current manufacturing.
If you seriously think the protico by Neve is anywhere in the same league as an older Neve then not only are you dreaming but IMHO you're actually a bit of a Fool.If it runs a plugpack then it's aimed for the kids who are recording from home running hobbie studios .A real pro unit has no shortcuts in its design.The problem as I feel is not its performance but whether it is overpriced and taking advantage of the consumers who don't know any better and buy it simply on the name.
A pro audio piece is built to last for years and more often is design and built around discreet components rather than cheap chips and power supplies.
I believe it's only a half-rack size.
Click to expand...

OK. Your pointless, uneducated argument is lost on me. You are making comments and statements formulated by never even seeing the Portico.

For your information, my Avalon M5 pre-amp has an external power supply. Show me any kid that can afford one.

And, a 2005 Fender Strat is exactly the same as a 1954 strat. They are both genuine Fender built guitars made the same way, by machines. The only difference is that a ton of morons seem to feel that a 50 year old machine made guitar is better and worth 50 times more than a current machine made guitar. Both have a bolt on neck, and as you say, bolt on necks are for kiddy guitars as anyone who is a true luthier will tell you that set necks are far better for many reasons

OK?
 
Is it a real Neve? ...... yes.
Does it sound just like the vintage classic stuff? ...... probably not
Does it use a different design and parts? ....... yes
Does it sound good? ....... most likely
Is it worth what it costs? ...... most likely
Does it really matter what Rupert Neve built in the past? ...... not a bit

In reality the only thing that should matter is whether or not it sounds good, is built well, and worth its cost (based on the first two statements). Just because Rupert Neve built some incredible stuff years ago does not automatically make his new stuff good. Many people love the old 1073 and 1081 stuff from that era. There were other people, other manufacturing techniques, and other materials and desires present at that time. It is important to remember that Mr. Neve has designed many different things throughout the years. They were quite a bit different. You have stuff from the original Neve, to Amek, to TAC, to Focusrite, to Summit audio. All of his different projects sounded quite a bit different. Some were very well accepted, some were not. As a result, I can not just go out and blindly buy something because it says "Neve" on it unless my only goal is to be able to say I have some "Neve" gear. At the same time though, that does not mean that the Portico is worth any less. It may in fact be an incredible sounding unit, or at the very least, at it's price, be an incredible value in outboard equipment.

In the end, I really don't care what parts were used, as long as the unit sounds good and lasts well. As far as I can tell, from people that have actually used a Portico AND other high end equipment, it is right on par as far as price to quality is concerned. Right now it is about $750 a channel, and is going to go up a little soon. Once it gets to $800 or $850 a channel it will priced just about the same as other comparable units on the market.

As far as other user reviews goes, it is still a new unit. I know how I am with new toys. When I get one that I like, I use it a lot and it seems like the coolest thing in the world. After my initial period though, I find that I finally start to see what the true strong points and weak points are and how it really sits in the scheme of things. Most people who just bought a Portico are really loving it right now. Those people however who also have other high end equipment may start using it a little less and less in the near future as the initial period wears off. Not to say that it is bad, or isn't great, but just that they will start to remember why they used certain preamps on certain tracks and for certain things. Its kind of human nature.
 
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