Need mixing advice (rock/alternative)

[superelixir]

I was wondering if you guys could listen to my song and point out any problems you hear with the mix. This is the second song I've recorded after finishing my home studio; mixing has gotten easier as I get better at capturing source material, but my ears are still inexperienced when it comes to basic leveling/EQ type problems.



I don't have good bass monitoring (my room is heavily treated and I have good monitors, but they are 5" and I can't afford the subwoofer yet) so getting the bass to sit right is always the hardest part for me. So far some things I have notices are:

- guitar too quiet during the verse
- bass gets lost during the heavier/chorus parts
- slide guitar overpowers the rhythm, need to bring at least the first slide section down a bit
- hihats/cymbals could be louder
- when I recorded the vocals, I was a little close to the mic resulting in proximity effect. I used EQ to cut away some of the lows, but haven't done anything drastic

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, especially any tips regarding the vocals and bass.

 

[TheChikenMaster]

Firstly Ill say...Nice Start! Secondly Ill say, get a reference song. know how it should sound.
I think there is way too much verb on the vocals in general, and the verb should be low passes a bit(cutting out the highs from the verb)
Drums are dead comp and bring out more midrange info, cymbals id leave as they are.
guitars need cleaning eq wise to make space for each other, in turn making room for the vocals. Also high passing the guitars will open up more room for the bass.
Id say cut the lows a lot more on the vocals, then brighten the top end a bit more, compress about 5-10dbs with a fast attack and fast release(maybe).
Listen to a lot of music...

 

[Armistice]

I like the echoey feel of it with all the reverb on the vocals although I wouldn't do it all the time - but limit the frequencies a bit as Chiken has mentioned.

I think sometimes where you have the instrumental echoes going they're a bit too much for too long, but that's a taste thing.

Snare drum needs major work to my ears... really flat. Kick needs more presence.

I think on the lower notes your voice gets pitchy here and there, just the odd note.

Nice tune though!

 

[PDP]

I like the echoing feel to it also, I think if you take out too much verb it will take away from the feel of the tune. My only suggestions are:

The drums sound a bit small compared to rest of the mix, need a more powerful sound.

The vocal is a bit murky, EQ along the lines ChickenMaster suggested.

I like the tune, dark feel to it that's cool.

 

[VomitHatSteve]

I'm listening on really cheap headphones, so grain of salt and all.
It mostly sounds like a pretty decent mix.
The only thing that really sticks out as problematic to me on first listen is the cymbals. I'm rarely one to say this, but they're too buried. I'd also pan them a little closer to center and drop the reverb a bit. They sound like they're on opposite sides of the room from each other.

 

[gecko zzed]

My initial thoughts are:

1 Great rhythm in this . . . does my end in . . . but it's wonderful.

2 Vocals are fine, but maybe lop some of the bottom off to give them a bit more presence.

3 Cymbals are nearly non-existent . . . they would add to a shimmer around the top and provide a unifying flow to the abruptedness of the rhythm.

4 Guitars are too dominant in my view. I'm sure others will disagree, but I think they swallow all the finer details of other stuff going on.

5 I'm ok with the level of reverb.

 

[superelixir]

Thanks everyone for the great advice!

Firstly Ill say...Nice Start! Secondly Ill say, get a reference song. know how it should sound.
I think there is way too much verb on the vocals in general, and the verb should be low passes a bit(cutting out the highs from the verb)
Drums are dead comp and bring out more midrange info, cymbals id leave as they are.
guitars need cleaning eq wise to make space for each other, in turn making room for the vocals. Also high passing the guitars will open up more room for the bass.
Id say cut the lows a lot more on the vocals, then brighten the top end a bit more, compress about 5-10dbs with a fast attack and fast release(maybe).
Listen to a lot of music...

Thanks, I was a bit rushed because I only had one day to mix after recording, but when I get back to my studio I will try comparing it to a reference song. The production of Pearl Jam's album Ten is a bit of an inspiration for me: Pearl Jam - Black - YouTube I really love its open, natural sound and dynamics.

I'll try limiting the range of the reverb; I did use more than usual and I thought maybe keeping the higher frequencies would help compensate for its dark tone. All of my microphones are someone lacking in air (even the condenser I used in this song) so its sometimes tricky to get a present vocal sound. I'll try cutting more lows and brightening the top like you suggested.

I'm a little bit confused about using compression on drums. The levels are already pretty consistent, so would it mostly be used for shaping the tone?

Snare drum needs major work to my ears... really flat. Kick needs more presence.

I think on the lower notes your voice gets pitchy here and there, just the odd note.

The drums sound a bit small compared to rest of the mix, need a more powerful sound.

For making the drums more exciting, would you recommend some combination of compression/midrange EQ, or slightly more reverb? I tend to like dry, natural drum sounds so I don't want to compress them too much, but I understand what you mean by flat...

I'm not much of a singer, so I guess the pitchiness is to be expected. I did my best though...

The only thing that really sticks out as problematic to me on first listen is the cymbals. I'm rarely one to say this, but they're too buried. I'd also pan them a little closer to center and drop the reverb a bit. They sound like they're on opposite sides of the room from each other.

Okay, thanks for the suggestion. I'll try moving them closer to center and bringing up the dry levels.

My initial thoughts are:

1 Great rhythm in this . . . does my end in . . . but it's wonderful.

2 Vocals are fine, but maybe lop some of the bottom off to give them a bit more presence.

3 Cymbals are nearly non-existent . . . they would add to a shimmer around the top and provide a unifying flow to the abruptedness of the rhythm.

4 Guitars are too dominant in my view. I'm sure others will disagree, but I think they swallow all the finer details of other stuff going on.

5 I'm ok with the level of reverb.

You are partly to thank for the rhythm... a few years ago I posted a mix for critique, and you told me to start over with only the drums and bass, and build from there. After that I gained an appreciation for the rhythm section, and now whenever I write a guitar or vocal melody, I find myself hearing a whole band, and how each instrument should interact.

Do you think the guitars are too dominant throughout the whole song, or just during the chorus (heavier parts)?

 

[dobro]

Yeah, it's delightful hearing you get away with that much space on the guitars and bvs. You're not pro. No pro would ever do this. I really like it.

If you sent it to a mastering engineer, you'd get it sounding brighter somehow more sparkly. But it doesn't need it really. Unless you're planning on going downtown with it.

If it was me, I'd put some distortion on that vocal at just a few select points along the timeline.

 

[TheChikenMaster]

Thanks everyone for the great advice!
I'm a little bit confused about using compression on drums. The levels are already pretty consistent, so would it mostly be used for shaping the tone?

For making the drums more exciting, would you recommend some combination of compression/midrange EQ, or slightly more reverb? I tend to like dry, natural drum sounds so I don't want to compress them too much, but I understand what you mean by flat...

Light Compression with the right setting will make the drums punchier. The problem i hear with your drums, is that they don't have enough dynamics. I feel that accentuating hits (slowish attack) and a release that fits in the rhythm, your drums will come through more. Of course the right tone on the drums is paramount, cutting the bad frequencies and slightly raising the happy ones.

I still don't agree with anyone here about the amount of reverb. True, it fits the song, but it takes over the mix. It needs to be there, but not there.

 

[Mr Clean]

I have nothing to add that hasn't been said already. Just wanted to say I think it sounds really good for a start. A few tweaks and it'll be mint.

Really enjoyed the tune

 

[superelixir]

I have nothing to add that hasn't been said already. Just wanted to say I think it sounds really good for a start. A few tweaks and it'll be mint.

Really enjoyed the tune

Glad to hear it!

Light Compression with the right setting will make the drums punchier. The problem i hear with your drums, is that they don't have enough dynamics. I feel that accentuating hits (slowish attack) and a release that fits in the rhythm, your drums will come through more. Of course the right tone on the drums is paramount, cutting the bad frequencies and slightly raising the happy ones.

I still don't agree with anyone here about the amount of reverb. True, it fits the song, but it takes over the mix. It needs to be there, but not there.

Okay, I will give that a go. I'll also experiment with cutting down the reverb.

Yeah, it's delightful hearing you get away with that much space on the guitars and bvs. You're not pro. No pro would ever do this. I really like it.

If you sent it to a mastering engineer, you'd get it sounding brighter somehow more sparkly. But it doesn't need it really. Unless you're planning on going downtown with it.

If it was me, I'd put some distortion on that vocal at just a few select points along the timeline.

Thanks!

I'll try mixing in a little bit of distortion, I think I know which parts you mean...

 

[Btyre2013]

I think the snare needs more snap and I also can barely hear the cymbals, and guitars are too loud, but like the reverb level and sense of space, don't change the reverb levels just change the balance of the mix.

 

[superelixir]

I think the snare needs more snap and I also can barely hear the cymbals, and guitars are too loud, but like the reverb level and sense of space, don't change the reverb levels just change the balance of the mix.

When you say guitars are too loud, do you mean bass and guitar, just the heavy guitar, or all the guitars (including slide and verse)?

 

[Chili]

He means the rhythm or main guitar playing. The verb, while nice, is definitely stomping over everything else.

The snare is flattened horribly. That is caused by too much compression on it; whether a compressor on the track, the buss, or the main outs, or all combined, you gotta dial it back somewhere. To me this mix sounds like it was done by the guitar player. I'm guessing that's you. No problem. This happens often.

So at this point I spew my usual diatribe about kick, bass and vox being at the same level. Here it is: the kick, bass and vox should be at the same level. Or really close. Bring in the snare and get those 4 tracks sounding really good together because in rock, they are your whole song. Then bring in the remaining tracks, but ONLY in a supporting role. That means, sorry, the guitars don't take center stage. After you're done tracking, you have to take off the guitar strap and be the producer/engineer and look at the song from a listener point of view.

I think this is a cool song and for a 1st or 2nd effort, it's way beyond anything I could have done. I would really like to hear this song after you made some adjustments.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[gecko zzed]

That means, sorry, the guitars don't take center stage.

^^ This.

Guitars are sonically very dense, and if they are too dominant, they just suck the interest and detail out of a song. I can't remember whether I mentioned it in this thread or not, but they have the same effect as driving along a noisy road trying to listen to a song . . . all that low frequency rumble and white noise overwhelms thew music.

 

[superelixir]

The snare is flattened horribly. That is caused by too much compression on it; whether a compressor on the track, the buss, or the main outs, or all combined, you gotta dial it back somewhere. To me this mix sounds like it was done by the guitar player. I'm guessing that's you. No problem. This happens often.

Well you got me. I am primarily a guitar player. And for this song, I did start mixing the guitar and drums before anything else...

I will give that method a try. Will update once I get back to the studio.

 

[Btyre2013]

When you say guitars are too loud, do you mean bass and guitar, just the heavy guitar, or all the guitars (including slide and verse)?

the rhythm guitars mainly, they are fine until it gets to 2:19, even 1dB lower or less would make a big difference, it's a subtle difference.

 

[yorgo]

I too Ike the feel of the verb but I think you need to pick with the guitars or the vocal to give reverb and not both. Drums need some livening up.. Eq some highs. You are right about the bass in the chorus.
And gotta bring up the highs on the vocal

 

[superelixir]

I too Ike the feel of the verb but I think you need to pick with the guitars or the vocal to give reverb and not both. Drums need some livening up.. Eq some highs. You are right about the bass in the chorus.
And gotta bring up the highs on the vocal

I see what you're saying. Unfortunately the guitar was recorded with reverb (I was experimenting with the speaker-driven reverb on my vintage Ampeg and may have gone overboard) and I don't think dry vocals would fit the song. However, I will try to make the reverb less intrusive like you and others have suggested.

 

[rayc]

More cymbals, some more drums (maybe something like the NY drum comp in Reaper) and the rest is just fine by my ears/taste.