Need info on the Tascam 48 ob!

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drrats

New member
Hi everyone, this is my first post on these forums. So much good info here! Looking forward to learning and contributing if I do decide to go down the analog path!

I am hoping to put together an analog setup that is portable. I think I've read most post on here re. the Tascams in an attempt to grasp the realities of this idea.

So I already have a Tascam m216 which we use as part of our P.A in our band room. It's small and fits well with my portability idea and has nice VU meters for the 4 output mix busses. I've been on the lookout for a good tape machine to match it. I know the m216 has both unbalanced outs as inserts (-10db correct?) and balanced outs on the 4 busses (+4db correct), so depending on whether I was tracking 4 or 8 microphones (use the busses for 4 outs or the inserts for 8 outs) the tascam 48ob would give me better options in this regard right? Can you track both balanced and unbalanced signals simultaneously (4 channels from the bus and another 4 outs using the inserts)?

The machine I have found has heads that are in great condition (I'm not that experienced but used the advice in this thread to evaluate the deck... https://homerecording.com/bbs/gener...and-gear/tascam-48-reel-reel-question-345962/ ), none of the various tape transport mechanisms are dirty or look worn out from lots of use. Compared to the other Revox machines in the shop, I think this particular Tascam has been doing nothing for a very long time.

OK, now for the problems...

So the rubbers on what I believe to be the pinch roller (sorry I'm pretty green here I know) has perished into a sticky black goo. The rubber around the other smaller tape guide next to it (sorry don't what that part is called) has similarly perished. How many bits of rubber and belts are inside this thing? I understand it has ceramic capstan drive but there are other belts in the unit too right? What other Tascam parts are compatible with the 48ob and what generally needs replacing internally to bring everything up to speed?

The other thing that is broken is the counter. It doesn't work at all. Any ideas on what would be involved in fixing this?


Another thing is that I have access to fresh RMGI sm900 which I was planning on using with the deck. I was planning on taking it to a repair shop as there are a few around here and have them service all the belts etc and calibrate the machine for this tape. I've read these units are pretty solid but how do you think it would fair as a portable recorder? I would be very gentle when transporting it. Would an Otari 8 track be better or worse for this? I would eventually like to learn how to maintain the deck myself but was hoping to get a pro to bring it up to speed in the beginning due to my lack of experience.

When I do go back to the shop to properly check it out, what should I be looking for on the inside? Is it even easy to get inside and check it out? They have the deck advertised as having a non-working counter but that's it, which seems strange as it's pretty obvious tape isn't going to pass nicely over that complete mess of a pinch roller.

Anyway, I sure there's something I've forgotten to ask but this is a good start I think. Cheers!
 
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A few technical points that need clarification.

About the M216 mixer:

The 1-4 PGM buss output jacks are all unbalanced. Though there are 4 Cannon connectors on the rear apron, they are not supported by actual balanced circuits. They are there primarily as a connection convenience to plug into nearby PA amps or recorders that require that style of connector. Nearby meaning cable runs below 30 feet in length. The -10 db RCA pin jacks are doubled up on those PGM/buss outs to accommodate the 8 inputs on the 48 recorder and that regime will work well enough so long as you're recording no more then 4 tracks at any one time/pass. Bastardizing the inserts to serve as direct outs will greatly reduce the functionality of the mixer as they bypass pretty much everything on the board after the mic pre-amp stage. If you do in fact need 8 channels to be able to record in one pass, you may well want to search out a proper 8 buss mixer with 12 or more main channel strips to create sub mixes such as needed for things like drum kits which often need 4 or more mics to submix down to a stereo pair of tracks on the tape machine.

About the 48:

This is a 3 motor direct drive transport and contains no belts inside. The only rubber parts are the pinch roller and outer edge of the tach roller which is used to run the tape counter.
RMGI SM-911 is bias compliant with Ampex/Quantegy 456 which the deck is factory calibrated to work with, so no rebiasing would be needed unless the previous owner of the machine messed with that.
From a design/sound quality perspective, the 48 is as good or better then the Otari decks of the same tape width format and parts availability would be more plentiful from ebay sellers and a handful of well stocked service shops which maintain decent parts cashes. There's also a business called Terry's Rubber Service which can recondition pinch and tach rollers for a reasonable price. A quick google search will locate him.



Cheers! :)
 
Thanks for the timely response. And thanks for clearing up confusion re the m216. Also, nice username! my first real synthesizer was a DX7. I learn t how to use it by going through the book: 'The Complete DX7'. Fun times . . . and I still own that DX.

So am I correct in assuming that once the I repair the tach roller, the counter will most likely resume working again? Also, are there any drawbacks to the three drive motor as opposed to rubber belts? And are there any other parts that could fail making the deck irreparable? I'm surprised you think the deck wont need calibration, they must be pretty rugged! Thanks for your help, sorry about the daft questions. . . just weighing up the risk involved here.
 
No real drawbacks to a direct drive system other then it relying on a bit more logic circuitry to keep it all running smoothly. But that same circuitry also gives the deck the ability to be hooked up with external syncronizers to be locked up via time code to run with other ATRs, VTR's and computer based systems which can lock to the time code.

In terms of failure prone components, they're mostly limited to things like power supply filter caps which can be replaced with generic parts along with voltage regulator transistors which sometimes die from heat failure issues. But those too are readily available. The motors themselves are extremely reliable and even if one were to die, they can be rebuilt or outright replaced via numerous sources.

About your unit's counter not working, its impossible to say the rubber replacement alone will fix that as there are other issues sometimes involved with the photo sensor and sprocketed wheel beneath the roller assembly which can clog up with dust in some cases. But an experienced tech can sort that out without too much drama.

About calibration, I was only referring to the bias component of that process. Touching up internal record and play levels is something that needs to be done periodically even if you always use the same tape formulations as these circuits all drift a bit with age and use.



Cheers! :)
 
The other rubber components would be the solenoid cushions. There are 3 solenoids inside and the rubber cushions that keep them from going *klak!* when they engage get sticky/gooey too with age. Last I checked these were still available from Teac parts for a very reasonable cost.

Does the counter light up at all, or is it dead?
 
If you're talking about the one sitting in the swop shop in Carlton, that's a pretty steep asking price for a deck that you can't properly test until you get the rubbers fixed. Their prices are usually on the high side and it's justified by their 3 day 'no questions asked' warranty but like I said, in this case you won't be able to source new rubber within three days so it's useless to you unless you already have another 1/2" Tascam deck that you can swap the pinch roller on to test.

Did you actually pick up the thing? if it's anything like my MSR16 it weighs so much and with the built in rack ears, is super awkward to carry. I have yet to pick mine up without swearing each time. I think for a portable setup the Fostex 8 tracks are much more suitable as they are about 20kg (I have one) and have the NR built in so you don't have to carry around the extra outboard gear.
 
Chilljam- Yeah that's the one. I wasn't planning on paying $1250 for it. I figured they be open to offers given the condition. What is a good price in its current condition in your opinion? It's kind of hard to gauge as prices seem to be all over the place. The fostex would be nice in weight, I was under the impression they were of a lower quality and that their wasn't as many parts for them as the Tascams.

Sweetbeats- Thanks for the info re Solenoids. I think the meter is completely dead. What is the difference in repairs for a unit that is lighting up as opposed to completely dead?
 
drrats said:
Chilljam- Yeah that's the one. I wasn't planning on paying $1250 for it. I figured they be open to offers given the condition. What is a good price in its current condition in your opinion? It's kind of hard to gauge as prices seem to be all over the place. The fostex would be nice in weight, I was under the impression they were of a lower quality and that their wasn't as many parts for them as the Tascams.
Click to expand...

A good price for that one is probably half of that, but of course with these things it's really about how desperate the buyer is to buy and the seller is to sell that determines the price.

Regarding Fostex vs Tascam, yes there are probably a few more spare parts lying around for the Tascam 8 tracks but the consumables (think belts, pinch rollers etc) are still readily available for both. The Tascam's are definitely better built (and therefore heavier) but the fact that the Fostex is a bit 'plasticky' kind of works in it's favour these days since most studios back in the day opted for the Tascams and hence why I find the Tascam machines that pop up for sale these days have had much heavier use than the Fostex machines which usually sat in people's private home studio and/or cupboard most of it's life.

Regarding sound quality between the two, I would take the Fostex over a Tascam 48 with no NR any day of the week unless I was recording a hardcore or punk album. Apparently Tascam 388 should be sonically inferior to the Tascam 48 and the Fostex 8 tracks but then lots of people love the sound coming out of those things (and pay crazy amounts for it too).

If you're interested in comparing, Mac Demarco's Another One was recorded on a Tascam 388 and Salad Days on a Fostex A8 about a year apart and pretty much all the same gear and personnel otherwise. Viet Cong's album was recorded on a Fostex 8 track and apparently also used a 2" machine but damn it sounds finger-lickin good (try getting that sound with analog sim plugin). Animal Collective's Sung Tongs was recorded on a Tascam 48 albeit the overdubs were recorded digitally.
 
If it was me and the counter display was dead and rubber was goo I wouldn't offer more than the value of a parts machine. You are going to spend hundreds in parts and labor on the rubber issues alone and if the counter display is dead who knows what the issue is and where else it may be manifesting, and you won't know that until you can give the machine a full operational run through, and you can't do that until you are already invested in replacing the rubber parts. Dead counter display could be a failed logic issue or a power supply problem...could be simple, could be not. I would stay away.

Also I agree I wouldn't consider the 48 a choice option for "portable" unless you had it in a rolling rack with covers where you could also rack the noise reduction. The Fostex R8 and model 80 are cheap when you can find them and my personal opinion is they sound good. Yes there is more plastic to them, but there is some info on the web regarding DIY fixes for the couple common problems you might encounter with one. Just beware they run at 15ips and use the smaller 7" reels, so you get about 15mins of 8-track recording per reel. But a related plus is 1/4" tape on 7" reels is easier to find and more affordable than 1/2" tape. Another option to look for is a Tascam TSR-8...built in noise reduction there but on 1/2" tape...an in-between alternative to the 48 and the Fostex machines.
 
Sweetbeats- There is a great looking TSR8 in my area also that quite a bit cheaper. I ruled it out due to it having two heads. If I'm running standard sm911 (which it is already biased for) I suppose that calibration annoyances are less of a concern? Do it once and forget kind of thing. . .
Is the TSR8 much lighter and better in terms of portability than the 48ob? My other concern is that it is unbalanced which is limiting in that I might grow out of it if I get a decent 8bus +4db console. Does the trs8 hold up in sound quality compared to the other tascams? I understand that they are newer, is the build quality comparable to the 48ob?
 
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