Need help mixing this organ... and a few other things...

7string

7string

Well-known member
Ok, I could really use some help on this one. The organ is being played by Ken Matson and he's doing some REALLY cool stuff but it's REALLY hard to bring out. Any tips, tricks, etc. that I should try?

I'm also interested in the overall mix so if anybody has any comments to help, that would be appreciated as well.

Oh, and Rami did the drum track about 5 years ago and he freakin' rocked it!!!!!!!

The Letter
 
Nice version of a classic, Jeff.
I find that the "carpet" that Ken's playing under everything else sounds a bit thick and too continuous (although Ken's an amazing player...). It tends to give the mix a bit of a muddy feel. Drums could be louder. Voice and lead guitar sound great. I'm listening on cheap phones right now, so my comments might not be that accurate.

Joey :)
 
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i'm typing this as i listen.

first impressions, snare grabs my ear as being a bit dry? not as present as i'd want it? GREAT playing though.

mix sounds a bit imbalanced when it kicks in....where the left side is taken up by guitars and the right side is organ?

is it possible to have a more equal l+r balance of rythm guitars, and give the organ some space closer to the midddle? with some eqing to make it a bit thinner/carries better?
cos i see what you mean, there's some really cool playing, but you could miss it!

doesn't seem to be a big problem as the mix continues, but i thought the bass was a bit thin towards the start? sorta trebly?

nothing to say about vocals and lead other than wow :D

i love it!
 
One of the toughest things about organ tracks is knowing or having a feel for when they're needed and when they're not. There needs to be some contrast if the arrangement calls for long extended chords with little movement. Perfectly suitable for backing solos, maybe not so much for the verses?

I play organ on a lot of projects and the single hardest thing for me to do is to not overplay. Personally, I'd all but kill the organ in the verses..that make's it's appearance noticeable in the choruses and solos. If you feel that the tune has a huge hole in it without the organ track, then try pulling it farther back and letting the volume swell as the phrase does, which is what a player would do if he was playing a B with an actual volume pedal.
Benmont Tench is very, very good at this.
 
joeym said:
Nice version of a classic, Jeff.
I fand that the "carpet" that Ken's playing under everything else sounds a bit thick and too continuous (although Ken's an amazing player...). It tends to give the mix a bit of a muddy feel. Drums could be louder. Voice and lead guitar sound great. I'm listening on cheap phones right now, so my comments might not be that accurate.

Joey :)
Click to expand...
Thanks, Joey! I think that's the biggest problem. Not enough separation between the guitars and keys. I need to get rid of that mud to make them both more focused and get them separated more but THAT is the hard part for me. I don't really know how to EQ/Compress the organ.

I keep pushing those drums up but will revisit again.

Steenamaroo said:
i'm typing this as i listen.

first impressions, snare grabs my ear as being a bit dry? not as present as i'd want it? GREAT playing though.

mix sounds a bit imbalanced when it kicks in....where the left side is taken up by guitars and the right side is organ?

is it possible to have a more equal l+r balance of rythm guitars, and give the organ some space closer to the midddle? with some eqing to make it a bit thinner/carries better?
cos i see what you mean, there's some really cool playing, but you could miss it!

doesn't seem to be a big problem as the mix continues, but i thought the bass was a bit thin towards the start? sorta trebly?

nothing to say about vocals and lead other than wow :D

i love it!
Click to expand...
Yes, guitars on the left, organ on the right, both at about 75%. Maybe bring them in closer? You are correct about the bass in the intro, but I think it was more the notes that I was playing. I'll look at that and see what I can do to get some more definition there. Thanks for the listen and the comments!

TeyshaBlue said:
One of the toughest things about organ tracks is knowing or having a feel for when they're needed and when they're not. There needs to be some contrast if the arrangement calls for long extended chords with little movement. Perfectly suitable for backing solos, maybe not so much for the verses?

I play organ on a lot of projects and the single hardest thing for me to do is to not overplay. Personally, I'd all but kill the organ in the verses..that make's it's appearance noticeable in the choruses and solos. If you feel that the tune has a huge hole in it without the organ track, then try pulling it farther back and letting the volume swell as the phrase does, which is what a player would do if he was playing a B with an actual volume pedal.
Benmont Tench is very, very good at this.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tips! Good idea there, maybe some automation is in order. But that will have to be AFTER I get the organ a bit more focused, eh? Not familiar with Benmont Tench...
 
no probs man,,glad it was useful.


i think what joey is sayin, and what i said go together...

if you're using guitars left and organ right to form the rhythm of the song, it's gona be difficult to get that 'lead definition' from the organ.

if you can make it guitar left and guitar right for sold rhythm, that allows you to surgically eq and pan the organ to fit wherever you want it to, without the solidity of the mix falling apart:)
 
Steenamaroo said:
no probs man,,glad it was useful.


i think what joey is sayin, and what i said go together...

if you're using guitars left and organ right to form the rhythm of the song, it's gona be difficult to get that 'lead definition' from the organ.

if you can make it guitar left and guitar right for sold rhythm, that allows you to surgically eq and pan the organ to fit wherever you want it to, without the solidity of the mix falling apart:)
Click to expand...
I guess what I was going for was that Deep Purple-guitar left-organ right kind of thing since that's about the only thing (other than Dream Theater) that I have to compare it to. That was my first thought when mixing this.

As I said, this was done about 5 years ago and originally has 4 electric guitar tracks and two acoustic guitar tracks, panned left and right. I left the acoustic's panned left and right but dropped two electric guitar tracks and moved the remainder left to accomodate the organ.

I'll give the "guitars spread left and right and organ somewhere else" a shot this afternoon and see what I come up with.

Thanks a bunch! Appreciate your help!!!!!
 
Ok, I've done a remix using some of your suggestions and hopefully I'm getting closer. My focus was on the rhthym guitars and the organ but I want to hear all comments on the mix.

The Letter Remix 3
 
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