Need help calibrating monitors

jmarques

jmarques

The Original BeatMinstrel
Not too long ago I finish building my first acoustically design mixing room and recently got my spl meters in the mail a week ago and I finally have got a chance calibrate it.

My set up is basically a sound card -> mixing board -> power monitors

I know from what I read in Bob Katz "Mastering Audio" he recommends that the best listening levels while mixing are at ~= 83 dbSPL at 0 dbVU(pink noise).

Does this mean at 0 dbFS my sound card should output 0 dbVU on my mixer at unity gain and my SPL meter should read approximately 83 dbSPL at my listening position from my monitors?

If this is the case even with my trim knobs on my power monitor turn all the way down I can't get my dbSPL to go lower then 88 db SPL. What should I do? :confused:

I know I could turn down my mixer board, but would that defeat the purpose of calibrating my monitors?
 
no no, Bob Katz says pink noise at 0dBVU...but that equals -20dBFS, not full scale. He even has a pink noise file just for this: http://digido.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=1

You do this for each individual speaker. I think he says 83dBSPL for each channel, totaling 86dBSPL. Setting the SPL meter to C-weighted and slow response. There are arguments about this number. I personally use 79dBSPL each channel, totaling 83dBSPL. It fits well with the size of room I'm in and spoken voice played back around that level sounds even to me. And it's a recommended "standard" for the sort of work I do.

So basically you play the -20dBFS through your DAW, out of it's converters and into your mixer. Adjust the mixer's levels so that 0VU shows up on the meters and use your SPL meter to measure. If it at first registers too low or too loud, turn down some sort of master knob (not the master fader). Some mixers have a monitor control knob on them to adjust level going to the speakers. You can use your speaker trim knobs too if you need.

Now, mark in pencil on the board (on the control knob or master fader) where -20dBFS is....Mr. Katz calls this K-20. You'll find if you put in a popular CD that it will play back extremely loud. Mr. Katz says these levels will probably be +6dB louder. So we'll want to turn that down. You can replicate this by turning up your pink noise +6dB to -14dBFS. Now adjust your master fader on the mixer to read 83dBSPL again (each channel or both...whichever you chose for the first one). This is your K-14 spot.

Now do it again, but find K-12.
So you should have three marks, for K-20, K-14, and K-12. All of this is the variety of types of music you might work with. Each one giving you it's own dynamic range. From very wide to very restrictive. If you're going to work with a mix intended for a theater or orchestra CD...you want the +20dB of dynamic range to work with so move the master fader to where you first made the mark and presto! If it's for radio broadcast purposes, bump it up to K-12. This way you don't need to recalibrate every time, your pencil marks are still there.

Also, as a side note...understand the difference between peak levels and RMS levels. Don't be freaking out when you see your meters going above what you just calibrated to.

And p.s. Glen keep out! :p
 
bennychico11 said:
And p.s. Glen keep out! :p
Click to expand...
Awwww, you're no fun anymore! :D

I'll do my best not to make comments about absolutely meaningless statements like
the best listening levels while mixing are
Click to expand...
*sigh*. It's all just soooo damn silly.

I'll leave. You kooky kids carry on with the Katz Koolaid Klub :).

G.
 
I've been a very happy camper since I calibrated my monitors. I listen at 6 dB down. 0 dB is too loud for comfort for me.

My calibration marks are every 2 dB as measured by my SPL meter.

The key thing is to always return your volume control to the same place. That was always my problem before I calibrated; I'd listen at different volumes and because of the Fletcher-Munsen effect, the mix sounded different every time and that was really frustrating.

I've compiled a reference CD with my favourite reference tracks adjusted to equivalent loudness at K-20. Most of my reference CDs are K-12 so I tend to just adjust the (calibrated) volume control for the CD player when I'm mastering.

Final point, I track and mix at K-20 but master to K-12 because K-14 is just a bit too quiet for me.
 
bennychico11 said:
no no, Bob Katz says pink noise at 0dBVU...but that equals -20dBFS, not full scale. He even has a pink noise file just for this: http://digido.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=1

You do this for each individual speaker. I think he says 83dBSPL for each channel, totaling 86dBSPL. Setting the SPL meter to C-weighted and slow response. There are arguments about this number. I personally use 79dBSPL each channel, totaling 83dBSPL. It fits well with the size of room I'm in and spoken voice played back around that level sounds even to me. And it's a recommended "standard" for the sort of work I do.

So basically you play the -20dBFS through your DAW, out of it's converters and into your mixer. Adjust the mixer's levels so that 0VU shows up on the meters and use your SPL meter to measure. If it at first registers too low or too loud, turn down some sort of master knob (not the master fader). Some mixers have a monitor control knob on them to adjust level going to the speakers. You can use your speaker trim knobs too if you need.

Now, mark in pencil on the board (on the control knob or master fader) where -20dBFS is....Mr. Katz calls this K-20. You'll find if you put in a popular CD that it will play back extremely loud. Mr. Katz says these levels will probably be +6dB louder. So we'll want to turn that down. You can replicate this by turning up your pink noise +6dB to -14dBFS. Now adjust your master fader on the mixer to read 83dBSPL again (each channel or both...whichever you chose for the first one). This is your K-14 spot.

Now do it again, but find K-12.
So you should have three marks, for K-20, K-14, and K-12. All of this is the variety of types of music you might work with. Each one giving you it's own dynamic range. From very wide to very restrictive. If you're going to work with a mix intended for a theater or orchestra CD...you want the +20dB of dynamic range to work with so move the master fader to where you first made the mark and presto! If it's for radio broadcast purposes, bump it up to K-12. This way you don't need to recalibrate every time, your pencil marks are still there.

Also, as a side note...understand the difference between peak levels and RMS levels. Don't be freaking out when you see your meters going above what you just calibrated to.

And p.s. Glen keep out! :p
Click to expand...


Sorry I took so long to get back to this thread it was late when I posted it. So didn't have time to look at it right away.

Duh? Ok!

I guess I got it all wrong you must be saying.

So my meter on my DAW should be set to -20dbFS pink noise not 0 dbFS. The output from my converters to my mixer needs adjust so it reads 0 dbVU on my mixer. Then my monitor needs to be adjust for 83 dbSPL for each speaker or you recommend 79 dbSPL for each speaker.

Ok I get it. This is know as K-20 reference level?

To get K-14 I start at -14dbFS(pink noise)?

To get K-12 I start at -12dbFS(pink noise)?

Sweet!! I think I finally got it!! :D


THX bennychico11
 
jmarques said:
So my meter on my DAW should be set to -20dbFS pink noise not 0 dbFS.
Click to expand...


well, technically you COULD do 0dBFS and call that K-0, however I doubt you'll like the results. First off if you play 0dBFS RMS pink noise, you're going to be clipping your output to hell...because peak registers about +10dB hotter with pink noise.

Second, you're never going to mix that loud. The number represented by the pink noise or the K-System is where the average part of your mix will end up. It helps give you a 0VU reference. And it helps remind you of your dynamic range. K-20 lets you have wide dynamics with regards to peaks.

And remember, peak and RMS are two different measurements. Just because you might mix a song with it's peaks getting close to 0dBFS, doesn't mean your RMS levels are that hight. They'll be more around the -14 to -12 range...where you set your pink noise at.
So if you had done 0dBFS as your pink noise, you would have absolutely NO headroom and your mixes would be incredibly too loud. Because the difference between your RMS and peak values would be, well, zero.

I'd be interested to hear what you think of your mixes after a few months or so of working like this.

And Glen, we have another 5 months until we bring up the debate again...I'm still recovering from the last one ;)
 
bennychico11 said:
well, technically you COULD do 0dBFS and call that K-0, however I doubt you'll like the results. First off if you play 0dBFS RMS pink noise, you're going to be clipping your output to hell...because peak registers about +10dB hotter with pink noise.

Second, you're never going to mix that loud. The number represented by the pink noise or the K-System is where the average part of your mix will end up. It helps give you a 0VU reference. And it helps remind you of your dynamic range. K-20 lets you have wide dynamics with regards to peaks.

And remember, peak and RMS are two different measurements. Just because you might mix a song with it's peaks getting close to 0dBFS, doesn't mean your RMS levels are that hight. They'll be more around the -14 to -12 range...where you set your pink noise at.
So if you had done 0dBFS as your pink noise, you would have absolutely NO headroom and your mixes would be incredibly too loud. Because the difference between your RMS and peak values would be, well, zero.

I'd be interested to hear what you think of your mixes after a few months or so of working like this.

And Glen, we have another 5 months until we bring up the debate again...I'm still recovering from the last one ;)
Click to expand...


Well I've already started recording more with -18dbFS rms instead of recording as hot possible and let me tell you I can already hear the difference.

Building the room before that gave me another boost of confidence since I've elimated most of my room mode problems I can clearly hear more what's going on in the music.

For me this is the next logical step in covering all my bases. Otherwise this would all have been for nothing.
:eek:
 
A general comment...

I find a good way to understand the K- numbers is to think of them as dBs of headroom above 0 VU. The headroom is determined by where you set 0 VU relative to 0 dBFS.
  • K-20 gives you 20 dB headroom (you can fit nice raw spikey signals into that without clipping)
  • K-14 gives you 14 dB headroom (not so spikey and probably compressed/limited)
  • K-12 gives you 12 dB headroom (almost definitely compressed/limited)
  • K-8 gives you 8 dB headroom (getting a bit hot around here)
  • K-2 gives you 2 dB headroom (Peppers album anyone? :) )
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top