Need help before my pre-production meeting

randyfromde

New member
Hey all-

On wednesday, I have my pre-production meeting to record two songs that will eventually be a part of my first EP. My question is, what additional parts do you hear (if any)? Here's the link to my demos:

http://home.comcast.net/~randyzwitch

For 'Indiscretion', I was thinking the standard full band setup...jazzy drum kit, bass, guitar, vocal. Maybe an outro guitar lead?

For 'A child's mind', should I keep it simple like it already is? I was thinking of maybe having a piano part added, but there is also something about simplicity, given that it's a simple song.

What do you think? Any production suggestions are welcome. Added instrumentation, background vocal suggestions, whatever.

Thanks!
 
Indescretion:

I think it would sound really cool with a full band setup. The chorus needs something to give it more of a "hook". Singing higher, backup vocals, or the right instrumentation (is that a word?) would definatly accomplish this. Or all together.

A Child's mind:

This one definatly stands on its own a little better. Maybe a really light drum beat and a slow bass would be cool.
 
I hate to judge so I wont but I say this... before you spend money in a studio make sure the song is worth it....

I believe music is art and if it speaks to you, that's great... But if you want to write a really good song read Jason Blumes 7 steps to songwriting.... it sounds anal and the polar opposite of art but it makes a person look at his/her own writing in a different light...

What I have written since reading that book has been much better melodically and lyrically....

I'd say get some good evaluations of your songs before spending the dollars in the studio....
 
denguitar said:
I hate to judge so I wont but I say this... before you spend money in a studio make sure the song is worth it....

I believe music is art and if it speaks to you, that's great... But if you want to write a really good song read Jason Blumes 7 steps to songwriting.... it sounds anal and the polar opposite of art but it makes a person look at his/her own writing in a different light...

What I have written since reading that book has been much better melodically and lyrically....

I'd say get some good evaluations of your songs before spending the dollars in the studio....

Thanks for your cryptic shitting on my music. Rather than give me any useful insight, you just hint at the fact that you feel it's no good and tell me to read a fucking book.
 
SHITTING ON YOUR MUSIC.....?

Would it have been polite to say I don't like it?

Obviously that's what you'd prefer....

Here's the deal, I listened to it twice.... and as I type this, there ain't a single part of that melody that I can remember or hum...

That ain't no hint.... Is that what you wanted....?

Also I can't separate the verses from the chorus....

You sound like you play guitar real well...
But songwriting is a different animal, some people are blessed, and some like myself have to work real hard at it... All I tried to do was offer some advice that I had found helpful...

Drop the tude or you'll never grow....
 
It has nothing to do with attitude. It has to do with these cryptic phrases :

"I hate to judge so I wont but I say this... before you spend money in a studio make sure the song is worth it...."

Read: I hate to judge (but I will indirectly), don't spend your money, because your stuff isn't worth it.

"I believe music is art and if it speaks to you, that's great... But if you want to write a really good song"

Read: Your music sucks, but I'm not willing to be forthright and actually tell you that, just imply it.

"I'd say get some good evaluations of your songs before spending the dollars in the studio.... "

Which you were unwilling to give, just hint at your feelings in your first post.

Frankly, I couldn't have cared less what you said, it wouldn't have hurt my feelings or made me completely want to stop doing music. But constructive statements and suggestions are what I am looking for. Not implications that something was wrong but you weren't going to tell me. If something doesn't work, just tell the person!

Now in your second post, you say there isn't a memorable melody. Great, I can work on that. You can't separate the verses from the chorus....can work on that too. Other people have said 'watch coming in flat on pitches when singing'. All things I can work on....
 
Jeezus randy! The guy's had four posts!

I know some people feel the need to tiptoe around being critical, especially when right when they join the board. Not saying you're meek there dengit, just some people have to get a feel for being brutally honest.

Me, I can't listen to the tunes from here so I can't comment. I'll tell you though, I sure want to hear what all the fuss was about.
 
heh heh, I'm a troublemaker :-)

Really, it's more just a misunderstanding than really being mad. I was really just wondering why someone would tell you something was wrong, but wouldn't tell you what it is...

No harm, no foul.

Yeah, when you get a chance if you could listen and let me know where you think improvement could be made, that'd be great!
 
filling out the recording

alright.

listened to the songs and I think I can understand why denguitar was so dismissive before. The rhythm of your singing feels disjunct and unnatural and the lyrics aren't terribly unique. I wouldn't go so far as to say these songs aren't worthy of recording but I'm willing to say you need to sound more natural and confident with your singing. Are the lyrics and ideas vague and a tad abused? Yep. Do I think they could work if you had kick ass arrangements around them? Definitely.

First, Child's Mind.

There's a great track by fellow homereccer Chris Harris available here called December that follows a kind of the same reflective child memories that has that confident voice I was talking about. He also goes into the small details of childhood that make a song lyrically memorable. That, plus he devised a great metaphor for the calendar of life that evoked in me a strong sense of nostalgia. I would recommend listening to it if only to give you an idea of what I think is a great song about a similar topic.

As far as arrangement, I don't think you need to go the overly morose path that Charris took. In fact, I hear more of a Ryan Adams style rhythm. The thing missing is that expressive controlled vocal delivery. If you're handy with midi, I would play around with some dark deeper strings in the background.

With that said, what would help this song the most in my mind would be a better control of momentum. If you've got in your head, great. It's not prevalent in the demo but you can fix it in the real version. Build up instruments in the verses, add new sounds to the chorus, and establish a musical hook that emulates the vocal hook you've got. I bet you've got a telecaster somewhere, make use of some electric.

Now, Indiscretion.

same thing with the vocals. I think you're doubling the vocals on the chorus. If you are, do it more. If you're not, do it!

Back in the old motown days, Phil Spector was known to bang on a metal garbage can lid in time with the back beat so the white kids would know how to dance. Steely Dan did it too on Josie. Point of the story is sometimes you need to beat your audience over the head with the hook and the transitions. This song just kind of flows like a stream of consciousness without letting the listener know when the chorus comes. Double the vocals, add some musical separators to give your song some structure and give the audience bites it can swallow.

Now, as far as denguitar of 4 posts is concerned, I have to say he sounds like a Taxi confederate hanging around the forum to spam for mr. Blume's book. I went to their road rally and I heard the man speak. He had some good ideas but sounded remarkably like a snake oil peddler. Nothing you can learn in those pages you won't learn by living life, listening to good music/well written songs and incorporating them into your own writing habits. Maybe I'm wrong.

Good luck with the recordings and post em in the mp3 forum after they're cut!

Miles
 
Miles-

Thanks for taking the time to listen and write all that up. That's definitely way more than I would've expected from anyone and is definitely appreciated! I'll keep those things in mind tomorrow when I talk with the engineer.

Basically, I'm just getting started into songwriting, after many years of guitar playing. And getting into home recording as well. So my wanting to go into a studio has many facets...from hearing how good someone else might be able to make me sound, to learn about the process more, have other sets of ears critique me who will be honest.

Thanks again.
 
Dudes,

It seems in my attempt to not piss anyone off I managed to piss people off...
My veiw was only to help someone learn from mistakes that I and others had made... I have seen people spend 2 grand on recording projects on songs that were not that good, expecting to sell them at gigs for 15 bucks a pop but instead they have a living room full of CD's.

Taxi.........? shame on you.... never....

On Blume.... I was skeptical but I bought the book off the discount rack so I figured what the heck.... It helped me look at my songs a little more closely... It gives you a good set of tools to be critical.

My apologies if I have offended...


I anyone cares to rip my tunes... look for dtg on MP3.com
And please be honest.....
 
Re: filling out the recording

stonepiano said:
Maybe I'm wrong.

ok, i am wrong. sorry den. When I heard blume speak, he sounded soo much like John Gray though. Like he would make all the hard work disappear by buying his book.

I would check out your tunes but I don't listen to music on mp3.com. if it's on nowhere, point me to it. I'll check it out.

miles
 
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