Need a little advice on a few things

J

Jackrip

New member
Okay, I am trying to record vocals only and my set-up...

Dell Laptop
Cubase LE
GT55 Condenser mic
Tascam US-122
VTB-1 Preamp
DXL 266 compressor
Rokit 5 inch monitors

First off, whats the difference between a limiter and a compressor? Would I need a limiter?

Any advice on how to optimize my quality with what I am working? I think my main problem is mic placement and recording in a suitable area.. my basement isnt exactly the ideal spot to record vocals in, I dont think

I was wondering, is the PreSonus tubepre better for phatter but clear vocals then the VTB-1?

Should I look into getting a mutli-track? For quality reasons..
 
Jackrip said:
Okay, I am trying to record vocals only and my set-up...

Dell Laptop
Cubase LE
GT55 Condenser mic
Tascam US-122
VTB-1 Preamp
DXL 266 compressor
Rokit 5 inch monitors

First off, whats the difference between a limiter and a compressor? Would I need a limiter?

Any advice on how to optimize my quality with what I am working? I think my main problem is mic placement and recording in a suitable area.. my basement isnt exactly the ideal spot to record vocals in, I dont think

I was wondering, is the PreSonus tubepre better for phatter but clear vocals then the VTB-1?

Should I look into getting a mutli-track? For quality reasons..
Click to expand...

A limiter is just a specialized form of compression with a super-high ratio and a hard-knee, such that no sound is allowed to exceed the ceiling. You don't really need one for tracking vocals. You may, or may not, need a compressor.

I don't think the tubepre would add anything over the vtb-1.

minimizing reflections in your room will be key to getting decent vocal sounds. Hanging heavy blankets around will help some. Building bass traps and broad spectrum frequency absorbers (see the studio building forum for details) would be better. you could also try recording in a closet full of clothes for fewer reflections.

Do you have a pop filter for your mic? -- it's a must for vocals, imo.
 
Yeah I got a Stedmen metal pop filter, I compared it to a 20 dollar fabric one, and vocals come out clearer. I wouldnt even think of recording vocals without one lol.

I had a booth type set up before, it was a really small area, with blankets up, but the vocals came out completely dead, I mean soo dead, it eliminated just about all the emotion I put into the vocals, everything was flat and didnt sound right, and I am not good at EQing, so that jus wasnt gonna work out for me. Then I expanded to my basement, full of metal things and nothing really soft like blankets to get that kinda effect and quality. The problem is, its such a big area, and its hard to build anything around the mic area.

I will check out the studio building forum , but anything else you can tell me would help.
 
I agree with Scrubs

If you don't have a good area acoustically to record vocals in, then the standard method is to record them as dead as possible and add reverb etc after the fact. Another major consideration is the acoustic treatment of where you're monitoring, not just where you're recording. It's not just where you stick the mic, it's also where you stick the monitors. When you expanded to the basement, did that include moving your whole setup down there, or just the vocal tracking?

I'm not saying you couldn't benefit from an improvement (equipment-wise) in your signal chain, but the environment should probably be your first priority.

Having said that, vocals can certainly benefit from good, judiciously applied compression. I don't really know much about your compressor, except that I assume it's a dbx, not a DXL. You might look into an RNC from FMR (good for a lot of stuff, including vocals), or a Joe Meek unit (more of a one trick pony (vocals), but it's reputed to do that particular trick very well).

Only you can tell if the mic is the right one for you. Have you tried anything else, or is that your first mic?

I guess I should back up here. What don't you like about the vocals? What do you think is missing, or is present that shouldn't be?
 
And BTW

if you reply and I don't come back to this soon enough ( I tend to forget about things ), feel free to pm me to slap me upside my head and wake me up.
 
notCardio said:
If you don't have a good area acoustically to record vocals in, then the standard method is to record them as dead as possible and add reverb etc after the fact. Another major consideration is the acoustic treatment of where you're monitoring, not just where you're recording. It's not just where you stick the mic, it's also where you stick the monitors. When you expanded to the basement, did that include moving your whole setup down there, or just the vocal tracking?

I'm not saying you couldn't benefit from an improvement (equipment-wise) in your signal chain, but the environment should probably be your first priority.

Having said that, vocals can certainly benefit from good, judiciously applied compression. I don't really know much about your compressor, except that I assume it's a dbx, not a DXL. You might look into an RNC from FMR (good for a lot of stuff, including vocals), or a Joe Meek unit (more of a one trick pony (vocals), but it's reputed to do that particular trick very well).

Only you can tell if the mic is the right one for you. Have you tried anything else, or is that your first mic?

I guess I should back up here. What don't you like about the vocals? What do you think is missing, or is present that shouldn't be?
Click to expand...

I moved my whole set up down to my basement. Vocals are decent actually, but I know for a fact that certain things I am doing arent up to par.. like I dont fully know how to use the compressor... I got the basics, and I am gonna enough to be able to record vocals, but I am not at the point I wanna be with it and I know it helps to know how to tweek your equipment to get the best quality out. Also, my recording area is not as good as I want it to be like I said before, no softness around to absorb the sound.. alot of metal that reflects sound. I mean vocals arent that bad, but I know they can be better. For example, now maybe they are a little thin and dont have that presence behind them that I would prefer.

Yeah its a DBX sorry about that. I tried out a Joe Meek Threeq and I didnt really like the sound it gave since it was a solid state preamp. I am fairly happy with my equipment right now because regardless of the small things I do wrong, the quality isnt that bad, so its not about getting new gear, its just about getting the small things right to bring out the best quality I can with teh current gear I have, and yeah this is the first real condensor mic I got.
 
I think you are on the right track, with just about everything you have said. Those small details are going to come down to your mic placement, gain staging, and compressor settings. One of the nice things about home recording is that you can spend all the time in the world (so to speak) experimenting. I think you should come up with about 9 or 10 different mic placements to try. vary your distance and angle and see what works. just mess things up and see what happens. everything from 2" away to 5" away from the side to 10' away with the mic pointed at the wall. just get wild with it. your compressor settings are going to depend on your voice and what style you are recording (which you haven't mentioned yet). are you doing voice-over stuff? opera? metal? hip hop? how good are you at controlling your voice? ever watch whitney houston or celine dion work a mic live? they are constantly varying their distance based on how strongly they are singing. if your voice is wavering in volume try a higher ratio (like 4:1)...if your voice is relatively constant in volume try 1.5:1 or 2:1. the dbx auto setting is pretty good for vocals. you might try a medium attack and a medium release. try to get somewhere between 2-4 db of gain reduction on the meter. now, gain staging. you want to give the compressor enough juice from the preamp so that you're getting this 2-4 db of reduction with the threshold set around -10. if there is 4 db of reduction you will need 4 db of makeup. this should be sending the signal into the software at around -12 db..give or take a few. Make sure that the +4/-10 switch in the back of the dbx is set to where the levels seem to be making the most sense. Sorry if I wrote this like you're a total beginner, you don't sound like one, but some more info on what you're trying to do and what your knowledge level is would help. hope this helps.
 
Jackrip, the stuff you have now is actually a very good starting point. I would for now (until you get more dough) work on technique like what you mentioned about mic placement, with Falken's suggestions. I'm sure with a pro using exactly the same meager gear you have could turn out some dynamite stuff. So practice, test, build some gobos & record some good tracks.
 
FALKEN said:
I think you are on the right track, with just about everything you have said. Those small details are going to come down to your mic placement, gain staging, and compressor settings. One of the nice things about home recording is that you can spend all the time in the world (so to speak) experimenting. I think you should come up with about 9 or 10 different mic placements to try. vary your distance and angle and see what works. just mess things up and see what happens. everything from 2" away to 5" away from the side to 10' away with the mic pointed at the wall. just get wild with it. your compressor settings are going to depend on your voice and what style you are recording (which you haven't mentioned yet). are you doing voice-over stuff? opera? metal? hip hop? how good are you at controlling your voice? ever watch whitney houston or celine dion work a mic live? they are constantly varying their distance based on how strongly they are singing. if your voice is wavering in volume try a higher ratio (like 4:1)...if your voice is relatively constant in volume try 1.5:1 or 2:1. the dbx auto setting is pretty good for vocals. you might try a medium attack and a medium release. try to get somewhere between 2-4 db of gain reduction on the meter. now, gain staging. you want to give the compressor enough juice from the preamp so that you're getting this 2-4 db of reduction with the threshold set around -10. if there is 4 db of reduction you will need 4 db of makeup. this should be sending the signal into the software at around -12 db..give or take a few. Make sure that the +4/-10 switch in the back of the dbx is set to where the levels seem to be making the most sense. Sorry if I wrote this like you're a total beginner, you don't sound like one, but some more info on what you're trying to do and what your knowledge level is would help. hope this helps.
Click to expand...

This really helps me even though you didnt know the details. Lemme break it down like this.. I am recording hiphop vocals, and my voice volume is up and down, I start out louder and trail off in terms of volume of my voice. I dunno how I would explain my voice, but I will try, its a average to somewhat deeper voice and I had a lil bit of a lisp.. dunno if that helps you, but I tried. I am sort of a beginner, I got the basics down like I said before, but when it comes to setting being varied between different songs and all that, thats where I get lost. I keep my settings the same all the time, cause I dont know the hardware good info to know when I have to change a setting.

I had the ratio at 2:1, but I might change it to around 4:1 like you said since my voice is up and down in volume. I got my attack and release on automatic, dunno if I should override that or not, but it just seems alot easier since I am not that knowledgable right now. When you said to set the threshold, so you mean NEGATIVE 10? Or 10? because I had it at NEG 10 before, the vocals come out kinda flat. Also, on my compressor, I got the gate all the way up, so the gain reduction is on full blast, dunno if that could be causing a problem aswell? The switch in the back of the compressor was on -10db.

Thanks.
 
Jackrip said:
I had the ratio at 2:1, but I might change it to around 4:1 like you said since my voice is up and down in volume. I got my attack and release on automatic, dunno if I should override that or not, but it just seems alot easier since I am not that knowledgable right now. When you said to set the threshold, so you mean NEGATIVE 10? Or 10? because I had it at NEG 10 before, the vocals come out kinda flat. Also, on my compressor, I got the gate all the way up, so the gain reduction is on full blast, dunno if that could be causing a problem aswell? The switch in the back of the compressor was on -10db.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

sorry, yeah, I meant a threshhold of -10, where you had it. automatic is fine. the difference between automatic and a manual setting on vocals should be very small. you might try manual settings just to see if it makes a difference, but it probably won't. sometimes if I am mixing drums or bass I will put a faster release on faster songs and a slower release on slower songs. since you are doing hip hop I would probably leave it on medium to fast release. A fast attack will "flatten" out your vocals and a slower attack will allow more punch to get through. You might try disabling the gate to see if that makes a difference. you probably don't need it. if you decide to use it, try to use a setting where the gate opens up very quickly when you start rapping and doesn't affect the sound really. its sort of tricky, and sometimes it cant be done, and you have to just give up on the gate anyway. as for the +4/-10 switch, you might try +4 to see if that sounds better. I think your preamp and your sound card are running at +4 but you never know, the dbx might just work better on -10 where you have it. getting gear is all about putting it through the paces and trying different things, just to see what happens. like a video game tester or something. do me a favor and see how much gain reduction you're getting while you are recording. if its too "flat" sounding, as you put it, you might be getting too much reduction. in which case you should raise the threshhold, maybe to -6 or something (just guessing here).

something else you can do is record a vocal track with no compressor, and then run the recorded track back through the compressor, while monitoring, to set the settings perfect, and then re-connect it to the preamp to record. One trick I used to use back in the day to control the sound in the room was to put a mattress up against the wall, and set up the mic so that you are singing into the mattress. this still allows an even amount of "ambience", but only allows it to enter the front of the mic, which usually sounds better than the back of the mic. I know your mic might be in "cardoid" setting, but trust me, its still picking up stuff from behind.
 
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