Need a good quality, transparent solution for my Monitor path (main, cues, talkback)

I

Idiomatic

New member
Hello there, I have everything planned out for a home recording studio, except I'm not sure how I want to construct my Monitor path, coming out of my interface. I don't just want to go from my interface directly into my monitor speakers, I would prefer to have some sort of basic (and most importantly, TRANSPARENT) volume control, as well as basic routing capabilities for cues (only need need 1 cue send), and some sort of talkback system.

After reading an article telling me to ignore entry-level bus mixers due to their non-transparency, I've been looking at the Presonus Monitor Station, as well as the Mackie Big Knob. Are these my best options? My budget is around $600. To be honest, I would prefer to use just a normal analog mixer (just to have that fader control, and so I can check my left and right speakers independently, and I prefer the routing layout on a typical bus mixer, and I can even rig up a talkback without much issue), BUT I do not want to compromise audio fidelity in my monitor path (mains is what I care about, don't care so much about fidelity of audio going to the cues).

I was thinking of possibly just going with the TC Electronic Level Pilot for my mains (no independent Left, Right speaker control though), and then using a budget mixer for cues and talkback.

I'd love to get some of your thoughts on this. How do you guys maintain audio fidelity in your monitor path when you want to add gear/control/routing in between your interface outputs and your monitor speakers?
 
Presonus Central Station here, which was an improvement after getting the Mackie 2408 out of the monitor path. I use it analog after D/A from RME ADI-8's. (The mackie gets one of the alt input pairs when it's in use.
 
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I use a M-Audio profire 2626 $599.00 as an interface, it gives you seven different mixes via a seperate cue mix control. It has eight ins and eight outs, it allows you to route those mixes anywhere you want. I send some to headphones for separate mixes to the musicians, and some to my control room and studio monitors. It uses firewire to connect to the computer and digital ins and outs. It can be daisey chained to other interfaces to add more imputs. It is a fantastic machine and works great.
 
Using the presonus monitor station here and love it, don't hear any coloration and it's nice to always have a nice feeling volume knob instead of checking your daw master fader and computer main volume all the time.
 
Personus Monitor Station as well. Two mix inputs, three speaker outs, four headphone sends, aux in and a talkback. Can't go wrong with it.
 
Another fan of the Central Station (the one with the built-in and quite decent DA).

I'm not much of a fan of most Presonus stuff - But that thing ain't too bad. Used one for some time while I was waiting for my Avocet. A bit of a tracking issue with the ganged pot (usually only at low levels), but an otherwise well thought-out unit.
 
Gonna be the dick here. Mackie Big Knob for me. For reasons that I don't have to explain. Unless you ask. :)
 
I'm a traditionalist but I'd go back to the OP's first instinct of a decent analogue mixer, probably a good one second hand rather the a cheaper new one. I had a quick look on fleabay and found, for example, THIS or perhaps THIS. (I'm not specifically endorsing either sale--buyer beware--but just showing what's available within your budget. Frankly, with the quality of either of those I'd soon be using it for more than just monitor control, but that's just me.
 
Idiomatic said:
I was thinking of possibly just going with the TC Electronic Level Pilot for my mains (no independent Left, Right speaker control though), and then using a budget mixer for cues and talkback.
Click to expand...

That's what I use on my main monitors. Once you balance out the levels between them (assuming your monitors have level trim pots)...then the single knob of the Level Pilot is perfect since you always have the level even across both.
If your monitors don't have individual level trim pots...then it comes down to how close they are as-is.

I've been very happy with the Level Pilot.
 
If you're looking for something decent on the cheap, the Behringer MiniMon will work. The monitor volume is pretty transparent and the talkback is ok. For under $40, there is not a better option.
 
Thanks for the replies!

Hey guys, thanks for the replies. I've taken a closer look at the Monitor Station, and it seems like a decent unit. I would prefer the flexibility and functionality of a normal analog mixer for my monitoring/cue/talkback applications, but again, I don't want to "taint" my precious monitor path (even if the music coming out of it is crap haha!).

Bobbsy, thanks for the input. I'm actually very familiar with the A+H Mix Wizard series of mixers. I actually love the functionality of those, and have always found them to be very reliable and useful, especially for live sound. Do you have an opinion on whether a mixer of that quality-level would be adequate for home recording monitor path? I care more about the fidelity of my mains monitoring, and don't care so much about fidelity of my headphone cues.

Has anyone heard anything good/bad about the TC Electronic Level Pilot?

Anyways, to move this thread along, this is what I'm thinking of doing. My interface is a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 (which has 10 outputs). I will take outputs 1-2 (main mix + click) and go into the TC Electronic Level Pilot (which is essentially just a big Volume knob), and then go directly into my Yamaha HS50m monitors. That should give me my clean main monitor path. For my headphone cues, I will take outputs 3-4, which will be the main mix (with no click track) and go into channels 1 and 2 of a Behringer (or ART Pro) 4-channel mini line mixer, which will serve as the personal cue mixer for the drummer or other performer (btw, I'm mostly just recording 1 drummer, and 1 guitarist, one at a time). Output 5 will be my Click Track, which I will feed into channel 3 of that same 4-channel mini line mixer. That gives the drummer personal control in his headphones in terms of main mix vs click volume, which as we all know, is a constant battle between engineer and drummer. It's basically a ghetto Furman HR6 headphone distro, minus the cat-5 distro! lol. Only really works for one performer, but perfect for my needs.

ANYWAYS, are you signal flow junkies following me still? I've outlined my mains path (interface>Level Pilot>main speakers), as well as my cue path (interface 1-2, 3-4, 5, into a four-channel mini line mixer). Now, here's how I am going to rig up a talkback system. I'll take some generic small format 4x2 analog mixer, anything from Behringer, Soundcraft, etc, and I'll input 2 talkback mics with on/off switches. I'll send those 2 mics out of Aux 1 which will send the talkback feed to the 4th and final channel on the 4-channel mini line mixer (so my drummer can hear talkback), and then also send the 2 mics out of Aux 2 too, which will send the talkback feed to my main monitors, somehow......I sorta haven't thought that part through yet. Any suggestions? The ghetto solution would be to take the talkback feed from Aux 2 and wiggle it into the main monitor path with a Y-cable or something lol. I know this sounds super confusing probably, and you're all probably thinking "Just get a freaking Monitor Station already!" but honestly, I think my way works better! What do you guys think?
 
Again, Mackie Big Knob does all that for me. The only addition needed would be a HA4700 headphone amp. The AUX in's accomplish everything you asked for.

But spend your money as you wish. Or don't.

Just kidding man, don't ever spend money on something that works. Total waste of time....

:D
 
Idiomatic said:
Bobbsy, thanks for the input. I'm actually very familiar with the A+H Mix Wizard series of mixers. I actually love the functionality of those, and have always found them to be very reliable and useful, especially for live sound. Do you have an opinion on whether a mixer of that quality-level would be adequate for home recording monitor path? I care more about the fidelity of my mains monitoring, and don't care so much about fidelity of my headphone cues.
Click to expand...

Frankly, the A&H would be (and is) more than adequate for the monitoring path even in a good many professional studios, not just for home recording.

Don't forget that, for monitoring, you will be using a line level input, not a mic pre amp. The mic pre amps on the Mix Wiz are very pleasing to the ear but might be said to be adding some extra warmth/colouration. The line level inputs, on the other hand, are totally neutral and don't add or subtract anything from your signal other than gain (or attenuation). To be honest, I'd trust the A&H neutrality more than anything from companies like Mackie, Presonus and some of the others mentioned.
 
Bobbsy said:
Don't forget that, for monitoring, you will be using a line level input, not a mic pre amp. The mic pre amps on the Mix Wiz are very pleasing to the ear but might be said to be adding some extra warmth/colouration. The line level inputs, on the other hand, are totally neutral and don't add or subtract anything from your signal other than gain (or attenuation). To be honest, I'd trust the A&H neutrality more than anything from companies like Mackie, Presonus and some of the others mentioned.
Click to expand...


Bobbsy, yes that is correct, I would only be using whichever line inputs that would give me the most transparent/neutral path to the main outputs of the mixer (ie, bypass EQ's, and any other circuitry possible), and then straight to my studio monitors. I'm not too good with electronics, but maybe a simple Tape-In stereo input on a typical small analog mixer would provide the most direct/transparent/neutral path electronically to the main outputs on a given mixer?

Am I making too big of a deal about this? Would the line-inputs/main-outputs on a simple $300 analog mixer (Mackie, Soundcraft, A+H, etc) be good enough to maintain the quality of my monitor path between my interface and studio monitors?
 
Idiomatic said:
Am I making too big of a deal about this? Would the line-inputs/main-outputs on a simple $300 analog mixer (Mackie, Soundcraft, A+H, etc) be good enough to maintain the quality of my monitor path between my interface and studio monitors?
Click to expand...

In my view, yes they are. I might not go right down to the bottom feeders because distortion/lack of headroom might become an issue but any of the brands you list would be fine in your monitoring chain. They're the proverbial "piece of cable with gain".
 
Sweet, that pretty much answers my questions. I've been looking at the Soundcraft M4, it's a bit out of my budget though. I'll update you guys very soon, as we (my band) are going on a shopping spree in a few days time. We've saved up $4000 over the summer for the gear, and we're building a home/project studio in the drummer's house.

Here's the tentative (pretty much finalized) shopping list. Keep in mind, this was the best I could do on a budget, the main compromise being 8 inputs instead of 16. The drummer has 6 toms, and I only have 8 inputs! Anyways...

Mics: This isn't my ideal set-up, but the drummer has a stupidly big kit, and I just don't have enough inputs. Open to suggestions for an alternative center overhead in the sub $150 range.
- Beta 52 (kick)
- SM57 (for 2 roto toms)
- MXL Cube (for 2 rack toms)
- MXL Cube (for 2 floor toms)
- MXL Cube (center overhead)
- MXL 604 (left overhead)
- MXL 604 (right overhead)
- SM57 (snare)

Interface:
- Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 (will eventually expand with an Octopre or something)

Recording Computer:
- Mac Mini, base model with upgrade to 4gb of ram (we're only tracking 8 inputs at at time). I am going with a Mac Mini so I have the option to use Logic in addition to Pro Tools. I don't mind PC, just not my bag of tea for audio.

Software:
- Pro Tools 10

Monitors:
- Yamaha HS50m's

Backend mixer:
- Soundcraft something....EPM, or EFX, or whatever is in the budget. This will be used for main monitoring, cues, and ghetto talkback.

Talkback mics:
- Shure push-to-talk mics or any Shure mic with on/off switch

Headphone monitoring:
- Behringer 4-channel Line Mixer (personal cue mixer for the performer)
- Behringer Headphone amp (one of the small cheap ones)
- Vic Firth headphones (but trying to convince the drummer to switch to the Direct Sound Extreme Isolation headphones)


So there you go, my home recording studio for $4000. Main focus was to have enough gear to get a solid drum recording done. I'll be sure to post pictures and audio samples in the coming weeks, perhaps in a different sub-forum. Cheers, and thanks to everyone who replied. :)
 
X the MXLs and stick with 57s not sure on budget overheads but why mess with a good thing stick with 57s for all toms and then you have more multi use mics to use for guitars box etc. All the recordings I hear made with MXLs in general just sound so harsh.
 
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