My recording experience.

D

Descalabro

New member
Hello.

I entered the world of recording this year, at home, with the following equipment:

Jackson Dinky guitar (around 500$);
Seymour Duncan high output pickups (around 300$);
Metal Muff Pocket distortion pedal (around 50$);
Vox Amplug AC 30 (around 30$);
HP Pavillion DV9000 laptop (around 1600$, but used for many other things);

Setup:

Jackson Dinky -> Metal Muff -> Vox Amplug AC 30 -> HP Pavillion DV9000 (Nuendo 3.2)


Now, the type of recording I am after is a very heavy guitar sound, with lots of distortion, to create something people usually call "a wall of sound", but with enough clarity to be an pleasant listen. This is what better suits modern Doom Metal, which is what I play.

On my first attempt I used a mono track in Nuendo and a high level of distortion on the Metal Muff. The sound came out very concentrated and it had too much fuzz, even though it sounded heavy. I felt like I wanted a wider, more evolving sound.

So I lowered the distortion on the Metal Muff and added some more distortion on the Vox Amplug, and recorded on stereo, twice, with a guitar for each side (left and right). With a bit less distortion and a widened sound I was able to pull off a sound quality comparable to many studio Doom Metal bands, but still not as good as the best bands, like Esoteric or The Prophecy (UK), and I still didn't have the desired volume levels of most of the genre albums.

Also I have a problem with the Vox Amplug AC 30: even though it is a good replacement for the enormous output levels of a real amp, it has a background "fffffffffffffffffffffffff" which I cannot remove.

So I decided to order a Presonus Firebox from Ebay and try to record with my Fender Frontman 212 R (also I was recording my guitars without any sound besides the natural string sound because of latency on my pc's soundcard).

I know this is a noisy amp that belongs to the cheapest of the Fender lines, but at least I hope to remove the "ffffffffffffffffffff" I had with the Amplug if I am able to keep my cables clean from moisture.


And this is where I have a question:

Will I need a Direct Box when I have the Firebox?



Thank you for reading. All opinions are welcome.
(I can send any recording demos if you wish)
 
no not necessarily. i have the studio project (presonus) and just plug a mic into that and in front of my amp. if you add a little compression after recording this could remove any unwanted noise and clean it up a little, then maybe e.q it a bit. what mic are you using to mic the amp?

dont DI the guitar amp as IMHO this sounds crap, others may disagree on this though. remember that hiss wont be as noticeable when your playing, so you could delete parts where you are not playing

dave
 
daveblue222 said:
no not necessarily. i have the studio project (presonus) and just plug a mic into that and in front of my amp. if you add a little compression after recording this could remove any unwanted noise and clean it up a little, then maybe e.q it a bit. what mic are you using to mic the amp?

dont DI the guitar amp as IMHO this sounds crap, others may disagree on this though. remember that hiss wont be as noticeable when your playing, so you could delete parts where you are not playing

dave
Click to expand...

Hi.

Well, I haven't tested with the amp already (I'm waiting for the Firebox), but I intend to connect the amp's 'pre-out' directly into the Firebox, that is why I asked if I needed to also have a Direct Box.

Recording with a microphone pointed towards the amp will definately make undesired noises, because I have noticed most undesired noises come from the speakers whereas if I record from the amp's 'pre-out' I will probably avoid most noises, and I will also get better sound definition and higher volume, even if it doesn't sound so organic (I even like to feel a bit synthetic).

As I mentioned, it worked very well when I recorded directly with the Vox Amplug AC 30, so I'm much more inclined to try with direct recording with the amp. With my regular headphones I could barely notice the Amplug's background "ffffffffffffffffffffff", but with my studio headphones I could listen to it even when I was playing with heavy distortion. It was like two separate lines of sound: the music and that constant and regular "ffffffffffffffffffff" like an old tape.

From what I understand, recording the amp with a mic is often used to obtain an oldschool feel, and it requires a LOT of equalization.

I have also considered learning about compression, but as a way to increase volume without loosing much quality. This may be a bit too much for a starter like me but once I get the desired sound from my amp I want it to be kept like that when recording, so I try to get the best from the original recording with the least possible equalization afterwords (and this includes recording with as little noise as possible).

I never thought about compression as a way to reduce background noises, it didn't seem it would work that way, but I must try it first.

Thanks for reading and please keep commenting. :)
 
Descalabro said:
From what I understand, recording the amp with a mic is often used to obtain an oldschool feel, and it requires a LOT of equalization.
Click to expand...

That's the most ludicrous thing I've heard in a long time. And completely false.
 
Descalabro said:
Hi.

Well, I haven't tested with the amp already (I'm waiting for the Firebox), but I intend to connect the amp's 'pre-out' directly into the Firebox, that is why I asked if I needed to also have a Direct Box.

Recording with a microphone pointed towards the amp will definately make undesired noises, because I have noticed most undesired noises come from the speakers whereas if I record from the amp's 'pre-out' I will probably avoid most noises, and I will also get better sound definition and higher volume, even if it doesn't sound so organic (I even like to feel a bit synthetic).

As I mentioned, it worked very well when I recorded directly with the Vox Amplug AC 30, so I'm much more inclined to try with direct recording with the amp. With my regular headphones I could barely notice the Amplug's background "ffffffffffffffffffffff", but with my studio headphones I could listen to it even when I was playing with heavy distortion. It was like two separate lines of sound: the music and that constant and regular "ffffffffffffffffffff" like an old tape.

From what I understand, recording the amp with a mic is often used to obtain an oldschool feel, and it requires a LOT of equalization.

I have also considered learning about compression, but as a way to increase volume without loosing much quality. This may be a bit too much for a starter like me but once I get the desired sound from my amp I want it to be kept like that when recording, so I try to get the best from the original recording with the least possible equalization afterwords (and this includes recording with as little noise as possible).

I never thought about compression as a way to reduce background noises, it didn't seem it would work that way, but I must try it first.

Thanks for reading and please keep commenting. :)
Click to expand...

You simply can't be more wrong. The speaker moving air is what gives heavy guitars it's big meaty sound. Recording direct out of the amp head will sound like total ass. First thing you're gonna have to do is get a decent amp capable of making the sounds you want. A Vox 30 really is not an amp designed to go heavy. I don't know about that other amp you mentioned, but you said it was cheap, so I'm gonna assume it's solid-state and probably shitty. So buy/rent something with tubes or buy/steal a good amp sim software. If you go the real amp route, get a decent mic to stick in front of it.

Do some research.
 
Descalabro said:
On my first attempt I used a mono track in Nuendo and...
Click to expand...

Be sure you don't talk about any pirated software or ask for help with any pirated software. That's a quick way to getting banned from this site. Nuendo is very expensive and with the setup you mentioned, I doubt you forked out $1800 for software.

Descalabro said:
I never thought about compression as a way to reduce background noises, it didn't seem it would work that way, but I must try it first.
Click to expand...

It won't. In fact, it might accentuate background noise.
 
Greg_L said:
You simply can't be more wrong. The speaker moving air is what gives heavy guitars it's big meaty sound. Recording direct out of the amp head will sound like total ass. First thing you're gonna have to do is get a decent amp capable of making the sounds you want. A Vox 30 really is not an amp designed to go heavy. I don't know about that other amp you mentioned, but you said it was cheap, so I'm gonna assume it's solid-state and probably shitty. So buy/rent something with tubes or buy/steal a good amp sim software. If you go the real amp route, get a decent mic to stick in front of it.

Do some research.
Click to expand...

Hello.

Thanks for commenting.

I din't use a VOX 30, I used a VOX Amplug AC 30, with a Metal Muff pedal, and it didn't sound bad at all. As mentioned before, I can send you a recorded demo.

Now, i'm trying to get my best chances here: right now I can't invest on a tube amp and a good microphone. The amp sim software may be a good idea, but since I got a good result with the Amplug AC 30, I want to do some experimentation and then get back to tell how it went.
 
Chili said:
Be sure you don't talk about any pirated software or ask for help with any pirated software. That's a quick way to getting banned from this site. Nuendo is very expensive and with the setup you mentioned, I doubt you forked out $1800 for software.
Click to expand...

Hello.

Thanks for answering me.

Well, I also have a 1500€ Warwick bass and I've just bought a 499$ Presonus Firebox, even if that's just its market price (I actually bought it for 200$). And Nuendo isn't that expensive, you can get more affordable prices on Ebay (nearly half that price at ebay.co.uk).
 
Descalabro said:
Hello.

Thanks for answering me.

Well, I also have a 1500€ Warwick bass and I've just bought a 499$ Presonus Firebox, even if that's just its market price (I actually bought it for 200$). And Nuendo isn't that expensive, you can get more affordable prices on Ebay (nearly half that price at ebay.co.uk).
Click to expand...


Ok, cool. Thanks for following up. We don't want this place to become a haven for hackers and Nuendo is one of the apps that sends up a red flag.

Thanks,
 
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