My Quickie folk tune -- help

[mattdee1]

Hi guys

I figured that recording and mixing a simple folk tune would be easy on account of the bare-bones instrumentation but man am I having a hell of a time trying to get the vocals and acoustic to sit well together. I know it still needs work but this first version is the product of lots of experimentation with mic positioning, EQ, etc.

This is one of those tunes that I wrote, arranged, and recorded in one afternoon, hence the simplicity. Feedback and pointers welcomed!

Song's called "If I Had Known".

www.soundclick.com/mattdee

 

[jeffmaher]

The sound reminds me a lot of Simon and Garfunkle. The song, too.

It really appeals to me.

The "Mrs Robinson" thing. Nice!

I thought the vox could move a mm up.

I think the acoustics sound great. Vox, too. Just a little buried.

 

[mattdee1]

The sound reminds me a lot of Simon and Garfunkle. The song, too.

It really appeals to me.

The "Mrs Robinson" thing. Nice!

I thought the vox could move a mm up.

I think the acoustics sound great. Vox, too. Just a little buried.

Thanks for listening Jeff. Despite the fact that I mainly listen to modern bands, over the years I've definitely developed a huge appreciation/admiration for S&G so that particular reference is very flattering.

It's weird you say the vox are too low because when I was mixing I was almost wondering if they were too high. My less-than-ideal monitoring setup is probably the explanation for that. But hey, that's why I posted it here: to get input. Thanks dude.

Matt

 

[jeffmaher]

Just listened again...and it came to me: "Cecilia".

Anyway, my suspicions were correct: I hit the 'mono' button, and the mix is pretty dead-on. My limited experience has shown me that far-panned L&R parts have the effect of sounding louder than intended. When I think of it, I mix levels in mono, then check stereo in the phones. The diff is a lot, sometimes. So I split the diff, or try panning closer until it sounds right, or just accept that more people will hear it on poorly placed monitors in imperfect rooms...or in a de-facto mono presentation at some distance from the L&R origins...in another room or something...not many will listen on headphones. I was.

But I also note that really good mixes sound balanced in mono and stereo! I haven't a clue how they jigger it. I just try different things.

I remember hearing Mrs. Robinson when it hit the pop charts. *sigh*

 

[Chris108]

Hi guys

I figured that recording and mixing a simple folk tune would be easy on account of the bare-bones instrumentation but man am I having a hell of a time trying to get the vocals and acoustic to sit well together. I know it still needs work but this first version is the product of lots of experimentation with mic positioning, EQ, etc.

This is one of those tunes that I wrote, arranged, and recorded in one afternoon, hence the simplicity. Feedback and pointers welcomed!

Song's called "If I Had Known".

www.soundclick.com/mattdee

Hi Matt nice song very reminsiant of Simon & Garfunkel overtones of the Boxer if I have the name right.
I would rather call this a ballard than a folk song & arrange it accordingly.

As far as mix goes too much level increase after the first four bars to stereo spead also hold of Kick drum till chorus or 2nd verse 3rd verse maybe add gentle rim snare, maybe woodblock then where all drops out except guitar
swap it for (Solo Vocal melody with harmonies) instead then bring in full music again with maybe even a snare beat & bass guitar.

Note that when the vocals come in after only solo rythm guitar part toward end of song there too low in the mix.

My appoach to writing a song is like Writing/reading a novel.

Mind you I haven`t made a carreer out of writing (says a lot for me)
and can`t write decent lyrics to save myself (Maybe I`m just full it).

This is just what I thought but I can see a great potential in the song.

So much for simple folk tune(sorry about that)

Good luck & well done

 

[mattdee1]

Just listened again...and it came to me: "Cecilia".

Anyway, my suspicions were correct: I hit the 'mono' button, and the mix is pretty dead-on. My limited experience has shown me that far-panned L&R parts have the effect of sounding louder than intended. When I think of it, I mix levels in mono, then check stereo in the phones. The diff is a lot, sometimes. So I split the diff, or try panning closer until it sounds right, or just accept that more people will hear it on poorly placed monitors in imperfect rooms...or in a de-facto mono presentation at some distance from the L&R origins...in another room or something...not many will listen on headphones. I was.

But I also note that really good mixes sound balanced in mono and stereo! I haven't a clue how they jigger it. I just try different things.

I remember hearing Mrs. Robinson when it hit the pop charts. *sigh*

I did a comparison to see if I could hear this, and you're right about the phones vs. arbitrarily placed monitors. Lesson learned! Thanks man.

Hi Matt nice song very reminsiant of Simon & Garfunkel overtones of the Boxer if I have the name right.
I would rather call this a ballard than a folk song & arrange it accordingly.

As far as mix goes too much level increase after the first four bars to stereo spead also hold of Kick drum till chorus or 2nd verse 3rd verse maybe add gentle rim snare, maybe woodblock then where all drops out except guitar
swap it for (Solo Vocal melody with harmonies) instead then bring in full music again with maybe even a snare beat & bass guitar.

Note that when the vocals come in after only solo rythm guitar part toward end of song there too low in the mix.

My appoach to writing a song is like Writing/reading a novel.

Mind you I haven`t made a carreer out of writing (says a lot for me)
and can`t write decent lyrics to save myself (Maybe I`m just full it).

This is just what I thought but I can see a great potential in the song.

So much for simple folk tune(sorry about that)

Good luck & well done

Thanks for the feedback man. It's weird, a few of the little arrangement suggestions you made, I was thinking along the exact same lines myself when I was mixing. The delayed introduction of the kick for example, I wanted it to be that way but everything just sounded so empty without it during the first verse, so I opted to bring it in early. I also toyed with a "non-accompanied" vocal as you suggested but to my ears I just couldn't get it to work.

Anyway, changes will be made, I'm just gonna sit on it for a while before I decide what they'll be. Thanks for the analysis, that type of feedback is very useful.

 

[heatmiser]

Nice tune and a fine recording!

Vox and guitars sound great. Not crazy about the kick...sounds kind of out of place given the rest of the sounds...how about something more organic?...congas?...bongos? I dunno...whatcha got going now...A drum machine kick and a shaker? Maybe a tambourine?

One afternoon, huh? I am impressed...the guitars and vox sound very integrated and you've got a nice tune going here...

 

[Chili]

Good song. I agree about the kick comment, especially when the kick disappears then comes back in. Doesn't work.

Yup, gotta get the vocals above the guitars. I like the melody.

You're real close to having this one done!!!

 

[mattdee1]

Nice tune and a fine recording!

Vox and guitars sound great. Not crazy about the kick...sounds kind of out of place given the rest of the sounds...how about something more organic?...congas?...bongos? I dunno...whatcha got going now...A drum machine kick and a shaker? Maybe a tambourine?

One afternoon, huh? I am impressed...the guitars and vox sound very integrated and you've got a nice tune going here...

Good song. I agree about the kick comment, especially when the kick disappears then comes back in. Doesn't work.

Yup, gotta get the vocals above the guitars. I like the melody.

You're real close to having this one done!!!

When you go from concept to mixdown in one afternoon, little nits definitely start popping out at you over time.

Right now the percussion is just a four-on-the-floor drum loop with kick and hi-hat, a shaker, and a tambourine. I was hoping this aspect wouldn't cause problems (and I'm agreeing that it does) because now it's becoming a resource issue. I have a quite small collection of loops and samples to use for percussion, and am not in a position right now to spend any money (laid off).

Regardless, I think I can eke a bit more out of the mix with what I have. Thanks to all for the great feedback.

Matt

 

[XLR]

Sounds cool. I'd replace the kick with a well recorded foot tap, and on the backbeat.

 

[joeym]

Very good song, Matt!
Very nice voice and harmonies. Recording sounds pretty good to me. All I would add would be a nice walking bass. Nice work!

Joey

 

[Chris108]

I did a comparison to see if I could hear this, and you're right about the phones vs. arbitrarily placed monitors. Lesson learned! Thanks man.



Thanks for the feedback man. It's weird, a few of the little arrangement suggestions you made, I was thinking along the exact same lines myself when I was mixing. The delayed introduction of the kick for example, I wanted it to be that way but everything just sounded so empty without it during the first verse, so I opted to bring it in early. I also toyed with a "non-accompanied" vocal as you suggested but to my ears I just couldn't get it to work.

Anyway, changes will be made, I'm just gonna sit on it for a while before I decide what they'll be. Thanks for the analysis, that type of feedback is very useful.

Your very welcome.

It`s hard sometimes to put suggestions into writing with out it sometimes it being taken out of context and not sounding full of oneself. I am grateful you you have taken it in a positive and helpful way in which it was meant.
Sometimes songs we have written we can feel quite personal about.
All the best & good luck.

 

[Dak_Sunset]

Really like this alot.

My only suggestion as a couple others have also said, vox could stand a bit of boost.

Good on ya.