My metal mix sounds like mud always, Now I'm addicted to using multiband compression

frank_1

frank_1

New member
My metal mix sounds like mud always, Now I'm addicted to using multiband compression in the master. I use Cubase 6, poulin vst amps and superior drummer 2. I also have T-racks but I use the cubase multiband compressor. So basically the multiband EQ's and tightens the entire mix when I use it in the master but I also want to master in T-racks So I wanted to avoid using multiband compression in fear of using too much compression all in all.

I just don't get it though, I've eq'ed the bass to make sure the low end is cut and the same with the guitars. I'm using decent quality stuff but the whole mix just sounds horrible without the multiband compressor.

I wish I went to school for this stuff....
 
Post something, we might have some suggestions if we heard it.

If you have a bunch of low end or lower mids, you need to bring up the highs to balance it out.

For the most part, multi-band compressors are used for fixing problems that should never happen in the first place. If it's a mix problem, it should be fixed in the mix, not in mastering or even on the main buss.
 
You don't need school man. Just good tone and room it recorded in before recording.

I have only used a multiband comp for fixing crap that had no other alternative. It is not something you should rely on EVER!


I see you have many posts on this site. How about you PM me and send me some raw tracks? maybe I can give some one on one input.

It seems you are trying too hard to find something that might already be there. Or you are not getting the sound right from the beginning and trying to 'fix' it.

Either way, it not supposed to be a challenge dood. I have felt your frustration tho.
 
Ok, so I put the first two songs on my reverbnation page. They sound low because I made sure they didn't clip, if you need a louder version I can put that up to. I will admit the bass is a bit too much from what I originally remembered but I still think is sounds muddy over all... btw I also used a 10-band EQ in the master for both versions.

Frank J. Anselmo Music, Lyrics, Songs, and Videos
 
You mention your equipment but say nothing about HOW you're recording and what kind of room you're in. Like Jimmy said, you should be capturing good sounds to begin with, not relying on this EQ or that Multi-band compressor. 90% of a good mix happens before you go anywhere near the RECORD button to begin with.
 
I think you've got everything slamming real hard through a limiter. Maybe try to back off a bit and see if that evens out the tonal balance. I listened to the two tracks with and without MBC. It did not sound muddy to me, in fact, the higher freqs might be a little crispy. I'm on Bose headphones and not in my studio, so maybe not the best listening environment.

I agree with Rami about the room you're recording in. As important, if not more, is the room you're mixing in? Is it acoustically treated? Listening to your tracks, I don't think it is. Tell us what you've got going on there. Maybe there are some recommendations in that regard that will help.
 
Well this is a hobby for me. I'm in a bed room so No it's not treated at all! I will admit the bass guitar is only a $400 one, DeArmond Pilot to be exact. I record through a Art MP preamp for bass and guitar and the guitars I'm using Poulin VST's.

I was recently thinking that I actually have no idea what the mix should sound like before the master, maybe I have this idea that it's supposed to sound completely different then what it should sound like before the mastering process.

Anyone have any files to post of what a good rock or metal mix should sound like? Or maybe throw in some philosophy or pointers?

thanks again guys!
 
The mix should sound like what you want to hear. Mastering really shouldn't change the overall sound at all, or at least you as mix "engineer" should look at it that way.


EDIT - And guys, the dude is using amp sims and ezdrummer (EDIT again - Nope! Superior Drummer, point is the same though), the tracking room is completely virtual. The mix room probably needs some attention, and he needs to do a whole lot of listening to "learn" the room, and a whole lot of cross-referencing on different systems in different environments.
 
Last edited:
Doesn't sound bad. Part of it is clutter, meaning there's a lot of instruments on the same frequencies. The low end does sound muddy, are you mixing Ez drummer on individual channels or is it just a stereo drum mix? Do you have good monitors, or cheapies?
 
ashcat_lt said:
the dude is using amp sims and ezdrummer
Click to expand...

Yeah, I didn't take that into account.

I think this is just like everything else. It takes practice and experience. The fact that he says "I'm only using a $400 bass" leads me to believe that he's under the impression that expensive equipment is the only reason pro recordings sound like pro recordings, which leaves out many other factors like....um....knowing what you're doing, having some experience, going through the whole trial and error thing for years, etc....It's not about expensive equipment and relying on multi-band compressors, and hoping that mastering will save your mix. If your mix doesn't sound good before you get to the mastering stage, it won't sound good after. Mastering shouldn't change anything, it should only enhance what's already there.

As a side note, very few, and I mean VERY FEW Mastering engineers actually use multi-band compressors.
 
I use Yorkville (i think YSM-1). I have superior drummer 2.0 and what I did was have individual tracks then sent them to a seperate drum bus because I was experimenting with just multiband compression on the drums.

PDP; I agree with you, I thought that was the problem and you just confirmed it for me. I don't undertand those, I use EQ on everything and I don't boost much at all. I wish I had individual tracks to reference.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PDP
Rami ; "As a side not, very few, and I mean VERY FEW Mastering engineers actually use multi-band compressors." That is very true, and I hear that great mix engineer's don't use much, maybe on vocals. Thats why I feel like if I'm relying on Multiband compression for things to sound good then I'm doing something wrong.
 
frank_1 said:
Rami ; "As a side not, very few, and I mean VERY FEW Mastering engineers actually use multi-band compressors." That is very true, and I hear that great mix engineer's don't use much, maybe on vocals. Thats why I feel like if I'm relying on Multiband compression for things to sound good then I'm doing something wrong.
Click to expand...
Well, you're definitely on the right track. You WANT to improve, as opposed to many people who stubbornly think that they're stuff is gold and there's something wrong with everyone else. :D

By the way, your music doesn't sound bad at all. I expected worse by reading your description first. I would try to apply many of the suggestions you got here and you're definitely on your way. :cool:
 
frank_1 said:
I use Yorkville (i think YSM-1). I have superior drummer 2.0 and what I did was have individual tracks then sent them to a seperate drum bus because I was experimenting with just multiband compression on the drums.

PDP; I agree with you, I thought that was the problem and you just confirmed it for me. I don't undertand those, I use EQ on everything and I don't boost much at all. I wish I had individual tracks to reference.
Click to expand...
Drums don't need multiband compression either. Take all the cymbal tracks and route them to their own buss, then take all the drum tracks and route them to a separate buss. Slap a compressor on the drum buss, something like an 1176 or something like that and set it on stun. EQ the cymbal tracks so the cymbals are bright, but not annoying sounding. Mix to taste. (there is a little more to it, like adding some high on the individual drum tacks, but I have to get to work)
 
frank_1 said:
Rami ; "As a side not, very few, and I mean VERY FEW Mastering engineers actually use multi-band compressors." That is very true, and I hear that great mix engineer's don't use much, maybe on vocals. Thats why I feel like if I'm relying on Multiband compression for things to sound good then I'm doing something wrong.
Click to expand...
I only use multiband compression to fix things that can not be fixed in any other way. This happens maybe once every year or two and only because I mix other peoples stuff for a living. Multi-bands are a very specific tool for a very specific purpose.

Normal compression and EQ can get you anywhere you want to go with what you have. You're mix isn't muddy, it's just a little dark. If, during mastering, you simply added about 6db of high shelf at 8k before a limiter, you would probably solve 90% of the problem. Even though, that EQing should be done at the track level on the instruments that need it.
 
TBH the only thing weird I am hearing in the non multiband version is the dynamic variance between notes on the bass guitar.
 
Chili said:
So much for my Bose headphones... :( :D (Traveling so don't have much choice.)
Click to expand...
Bose is not known for making anything that gives you accurate playback. Their claim to fame was making systems that make everything 'nice' sounding, no matter what is fed to them. I don't know if that has changed in the last 10 years or so, but..
 
Guitargodgt said:
TBH the only thing weird I am hearing in the non multiband version is the dynamic variance between notes on the bass guitar.
Click to expand...

Yeah the multi really tightens the bass and with the bass drum the multi tightens and expands it very well. Do you think I should try parallel compression for the drums?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top