my ears hurt

D

dmcsilva

New member
I have been working on this since Saturday, and all day today. I uploaded a condensed version to keep download times to a minimum. I'm open to any suggestions on improving the mix; I have no idea if it sounds good or if it sounds like ass anymore-I've listened to it/analyzed it so many times in a row. My mixdown started off on a wild goose chase to get good seperation between instruments; my ears are so damn tired I can't tell if I did very well. All criticism is welcome.


Thank you

dmc



[This message has been edited by dmcsilva (edited 12-23-1999).]
 
Hi DMC,

Just a few observations. The start part with just the bass(s) and drums sounds fine, but I think that whole section could still be pumped up a bit in volume. When the distorted guitars and the change of drum beat come in: I find the heavy guitar is mixed back to far, and maybe overprocessed. (too much reverb possibly). Also in this same section, did you use some type of stereo image inhancer on the drums? I find these things to be helpful in some cases, but other times it can thin the sound out considerably, gets a bit phasey sounding.

Outside of this, I think you can get this to work. Is this strickly an instrumental song, or will there be vocals as well? If there are vocals this will change the mix as well. Interesting stuff!

Emeric
 
Emeric:

Thanks for your opinion on this one.

I went back and made adjustments based upon your feedback, I think it sounds much better now. It's definitely louder and the guitar is more prominent. I wouldn't say I'm even close to having the ability to mix well, but I'm a lot closer than I was a couple of months ago. If you'd like to do an A/B comparison I uploaded the revised version.


Thanks again

dmc
 
I checked out the mix and the remix. Nice.
Remix was better even in terms of the only really troublesome spot on the whole track.
That was the transition between the acoustic and electric section @0:29. A very difficult
transition in that you want volume on both sides but a noticeable "kick" at the introduction to the new section. I hate to bring up such a tired mix as "Stairway to Heaven", but your tune's dynamics brought that to mind. Zep did a really good job and people have been trying to match that ever since on pop tunes. People expect a boost when the electric thing takes over. And a cut when it thins out to a mono vocal
 
dmcsilva:

You've got the makings of something cool here. A couple things would really help though.

First, a real bass. At the beginning and end it's not so noticable, but I think the reason you're not getting the punch you need during the transition is that there's not a good bottom to it. Several months ago I was recording without a bass. I have this tune that's real grungy...starts with an acoustic then blasts into electric...however the blast was more of a "pop". So I went out and bought a cheapo bass guitar from a pawn shop and "BOOM". So much better.

Second, are you going to be adding to this? It needs something more melodic in there or maybe just a few more changes.

Third, there's a real easy way to beef up the distored guitar part. Record the same part three or four times (or once the way it's supposed to be and two 'backbeat' parts)...in stereo preferably. If your timing is good then you'll have such a nice big sound. I came to realize this very recently on accident. On my current project I recorded the same guitar line 3 times....left one center and panned the other two. MAN! Big sound.

Anyway, I really like the drums...especially during the mellow sections. I might not have the popular opinion, but I like stereo effects on drums.

The mellow part is really catchy. I can definately see this piece growing into something cool.

The mix itself sounds good to my ears. I think that everything has its own space and nothing clashes...which is something I really need to work on.

Good job!

Slackmaster 2000
 
S2K:

Thanx for your comments. That is a real bass on the track-if you can call a 1975 Ovation Magnum with strings .25 inches off the frets a real bass. What the hell, it's a freeby; I acquired it by means very similar to your sm57.

I have sinced remixed this and even added some acoustic blues soloing over the mellow intro to inject some melody into it. I've also used some volume envelopes on the bass to adjust the levels in different parts of the song, adding more bass presence in the harder sections.

Another thing that really affected the bass lines on this is the Blade Enc encoding. Boy does it suck. This is the track I was referring to in response to your recent mp3 post when I said it sounded like an ill cassette deck. And I don't mean the Beastie Boy's definition of ill either. I have also re-encoded with SCMPX-much improvement.

Thanx again for taking the time to download and provide your feedback.

dmc

P.S. I'm going to upload a newer version tonight with some changes based upon your feedback, S2K. It'll replace the version in the 2nd link above for overthrown2.

[This message has been edited by dmcsilva (edited 12-01-1999).]
 
Oops, my mistake. The bass just sounds a little piano-like so I thought it was electronic. Before I bought my bass I tried using a program called Harmony Assistant for bass and it sounded similar. Not enough deep tone to really fill out the music.

I think that in your piece it's especially noticable right at the transition. Maybe if you just reworked it so the bass line stayed down for a while after the change. Maybe drop the run an octave and see what happens. Right now it just doesn't sound "bassy" to my ears.

I think it's more of a tone issue though.

Blade does suck at 128. I notice sweeping in both my bass lines and percussion instruments. SCMPX will clear it up for ya. I'm sure your cymbals and clicks will have a lot more definition, though they're already pretty nice!

Anyway, sorry about the misjudgement and I look forward to hearing your remix.

Slackmaster 2000
 
S2K:

it's there now in the 2nd posted link above; I doubled the guitar track, and your right, it does sound bigger. let me know whacha think.

dmc

oh yeah, I encoded at 192k and the sound is much improved.



[This message has been edited by dmcsilva (edited 12-01-1999).]
 
Besides the fact that the second mix was 192 vs. 128 for the first one, the second one was normalized and the first one wasn't. And that transition I mentioned was done better on the second mix.
 
Thanx drstawl.

You're a chemist, huh? Me too, except I don't do benchwork anymore, I recruit for scientists. Pretty interesting group of folks here.

Anyway, compared with the very first mix that transition is much more abrupt and therefore sounds better. Sometimes I find myself inching my way towards sufficient volume when mixing, and it takes me a while to get instrument track volumes (guitar in this case) up where they should be. I don't know where this tentativeness comes from. You would think being a guitarist, I would have everyting else drowned out by the guitar.

I look forward to hearing what all of ya'll have been working on. I've hit a dry spell. Must be all of that tryptophan from last week. So screw turkey, I'm having steak for xmas dinner.

dmc



[This message has been edited by dmcsilva (edited 12-01-1999).]
 
Ah nothing like a big juicy steak after screwing a turkey.

Well I listened to your latest version. I really like the bluesy stuff at the beginning... very much like something I might do actually.

The only problem is that it's so nice and loud and crisp, that it screws with the transition into electric. I think that the electric section sounds a little better overall though.

Segways from acoustic to electric are pretty hard. I don't know much about getting em right but I have some ideas. 1) Use the drums to provide an initial punch that says "THE SONG IS LOUDER NOW" even though it's not. 2) Have a good low end. Drop that bass down so it kicks more. 3) Actually make the electric section louder.

Something else...I think it would be cool if you waited a few bars before coming in with the acoustic bluesy thing at the beginning. I think that it would provide some mental foundation for the lisener...and that little groove is very catchy.

Anyway, I feel like I'm starting to tread a little too much. You're the only person who knows what this should sound like and I know it can be offensive to have someone recommend changes to your art.

The mix itself sounds pretty dang good, besides the transistion needing work. I'm listening to it with crappy headphones at work right now...but that's kind of a good thing. If I can hear everything clearly with these things then it's bound to sound good on a good stereo.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Hmmmmn, a fellow turkeyphile. You aren't treading, I appreciate your comments. Maybe a feedback/volume swell combo (or a #3 from taco bell) would smooth out the transition. I am going to take your advice and extend the intro before the acoustic kicks in; a simple click-and-drag operation will take of that. I love SW multitracking.

I've ordered a CD burner from buy.com that should be here soon. I can't wait to see how my mixes translate over to a car stereo or through the cd player in my home stereo. Especially since I'm mixing with altec lansing computer speakers-the one's with the subwoofer. They sound really good; even moreso since it'll be awhile before I can shell out the duckets for real monitors.

dmc
 
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