Music Knowledge

More knowledge IS better as long as it doesn't become a constraint--and that's your own choice.

The example of this always given is Picasso--because it's an accurate analogy. He had formal training in oil painting techniques and figure drawing--but then chose to use this background knowledge to develop totally new art forms. However, the formal training allowed him to paint what he wanted without worrying about the technicalities.

The same applies in music. You can do what you want with it but you can achieve more if you know how to get the effect you want rather than turning everything into an experiment.
 
EDIT - I'm sorry, I wrote this super-badly, a half-brain cell from sleep last night. I've edited it, but tried to retain my having been something of a dick, as well.

I suggest that I simmer down and keep my crazy perspectives focused on my own works.

Seeking knowledge is super-important, but even more important, is to not wait to create. In the recording and mixing world, technical knowledge of the craft is everything. That, is mission-critical knowledge. In the songwriting and composition world, music theory isn't a necessity to start with, it can be developed along with other skills. For a producer, maybe it depends on the types of acts that are produced. Some acts might be intimidated by music theory bantered about whilst other acts might expect it, think it a necessity. Not a producer, don't know.

My personal perception is that once one accepts experience as knowledge, it can become a constraint. Chatting music theory can waste a lot of time that could have been spent coming up with something original, I have seen that in collaboration myself.

Interesting about Picasso. :)

There's a part in the documentary about The Descendents where this child prodigy, classically trained Berkeley pianist and new producer, was given his first record album job, to record The Descendents. He entered the studio and they were all farting and one of them asked the guy to bring the mic closer so that he could record his fart. On that job, that producer did not necessarily need the music theory background. On another album with a different artist he well might've.

Is 'originality' directly derived from 'knowledge'? If I have more 'knowledge', does that then make my 'original' music more 'original'? Rhetorical questions.
 
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LOL! With the cold weather (in Aussie terms) we're having now, the last thing I need is to "simmer down". I could definitely use some warmth just now!

Yeah. This is the Newbies forum and, if I could summarise most of the replies early on, it would be "No, you don't NEED formal musical training but, if you have it, your learning curve gets easier". Beyond that, it's just become a vaguely interesting discussion..

Meh.
 
Life is a learning tool. I totally agree with "more knowledge is better," even though I must have missed that sentiment expressed in the thread. The one track that was demonstrated as a moniker of too much knowledge is more rather from those who stop learning. I think when you stop learning, you stagnate. That's where cookie cutter music comes from.
Once you learn compression and subtractive EQ, man that's it! You can mix anything....no. There's way too much more to learn to stop there.
No, if you deal with others who don't have your knowledge in wrong ways...lording it over them or making them feel small...is not going to gain you a lot of business. But knowing will make your life easier, even if you have to break it down to smaller bits for people who don't have your knowledge.
I don't think anyone knows everything about a given subject. Too many variables. But it doesn't hurt to know some music theory. It doesn't hurt to know how to solder and some basics of electronic principles. Some organizational skills and a good work ethic. Being able to pick up a guitar or a bass or a keyboard and at least be able to play basic chords. Communication skills. It all helps. Add all that to knowledge of good miking techniques, mixing techniques, audio and ear training, use of dynamics and timbre to attract the listeners' ears...the list goes on and on. Then you have the makings of a great producer.
Having said all that, having only a few of these knowledge bases will get you off the ground. Just don't stop learning.
 
In my opinion, the producer should at least be able to speak on the same level, music theory-wise as anything else there. Therefore, I think he probably needs to be well educated in the subject. I'm not saying that you need to know your Schenkerian Analysis backwards and forwards, but yeah, you should be well versed in keys, scales, harmonic relationships/analysis, ear training, etc. It's the producer's job (as I see it) to help realize the musician's potential and guide them as necessary to achieve that. He/she shouldn't need to go hunt and peck on the piano to find a note he's trying to get the musicians to try out.

Of course, I'm sure there are some exceptions to this rule, but I'd be willing to bet that most successful producers, past and present, are some of the most musically educated at the session. I could be wrong though; I am so often! :)
 
Bobbsy said:


LOL! With the cold weather (in Aussie terms) we're having now, the last thing I need is to "simmer down". I could definitely use some warmth just now!

Yeah. This is the Newbies forum and, if I could summarise most of the replies early on, it would be "No, you don't NEED formal musical training but, if you have it, your learning curve gets easier". Beyond that, it's just become a vaguely interesting discussion..

Meh.
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Sorry Bobbsy my bad, I'm not simmering here either. 43F this morning.
 
pazu said:
...because that would be logical fallacy. If experience equated to knowledge, then all persons older, would possess more knowledge than all of those younger. That is not the case. Knowledge is faceted, whereas experience is linear.

I did not reference the artists that you mention therefore you are likely correct; hardly sounds the same as the formulaic crap that I am talking about.
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You need to find a quiet room and a dictionary.
 
Knowledge, is a subset of life experience. Less than. They are not the same thing. You can have experiences, and learn nothing, gain no knowledge from the experiences. Happens all of the time.

How is the quiet room, dictionary, or English grammar primer, going to change that?

If the correction is warranted, then correct. Correct?

I am going back to my padded room now. :)
 
pazu said:
Knowledge, is a subset of life experience. Less than. They are not the same thing. You can have experiences, and learn nothing, gain no knowledge from the experiences. Happens all of the time.

How is the quiet room, dictionary, or English grammar primer, going to change that?

If the correction is warranted, then correct. Correct?

I am going back to my padded room now. :)
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Guys are just busting your balls. Chillaxe. (I looked it up)
 
DM60 said:
Guys are just busting your balls. Chillaxe. (I looked it up)
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Thanks for that

sorta funny that. I had to look up chillax... Now that I'm chillaxing, gonna pop a rolling rock & do some git fiddlin. Surely the beer will make me play *awesome*.
 
pazu said:
Thanks for that

sorta funny that. I had to look up chillax... Now that I'm chillaxing, gonna pop a rolling rock & do some git fiddlin. Surely the beer will make me play *awesome*.
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and it will make the girls at the bar look better. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
As a recording "engineer", not necessarily. As a producer, a basic knowledge is essential. A producer is there to bring out the best in the artist. That may mean suggesting changes to the arrangement and composition of a song. You must be able to express your ideas.
 
Sometimes I miss my padded rumpus room: All the white, the nice jacket with the tie in the back, someone to feed you three squares a day...
 
Intrestering question. how about never stop learning everything. i've done a little of everything in the music field and all that knowledge was gained as I needed it and came in handy. My cousin used to be the local sound guy, engineer, my cousin used to be the local sound guy, engineer, talentless guitar player, and "produced" an album for a local band. He was a great bullshitter but got to hold the title. He didn't last long in each capacity. Go figure.
 
Bobbsy said:
You don't NEED to know anything but, depending on who you're working with and what you're doing it can be useful. Scales are probably not as important as you think but understand keys and the moods they have can be useful; so can things like tempo and time signature.

Of course, if you're recording trash metal with a band who can't read music and only know 3 chords, none of this will help much!
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lol exactly
 
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