Multiple MIDI devices?

EtherealEntity

EtherealEntity

Dreamer
Hey guys. I have a Presonus inteface with one MIDI input and one MIDI output. The output is unused. The input is connected to my MIDI keyboard. In the near future I can see myself buying one of those small 16 pad drum controllers and a bunch of assignable knobs and sliders. So that's three MIDI devices in total. Maybe two as the drum pads sometimes include controllers.

Anyway, my question is - Can I run both these devices into the single MIDI input on my Presonus and keep them seperate? I know I'd need some kind of box to do that with. Preferably one that doesn't involve USB.

Thanks for any advice :)
 
You need to merge the midi signal either via a merge box or some midi keyboards have an "in" that will merge to the output
 
You don't need to keep them separate.

I use at the same time:
A midisport usb2x2 with a keyboard and my windsynth
A keystation49 usb keyboard
and the midi ports on my Motu828mkII.

Midi doesn't care. It's a relatively low-impact data transfer (it started off on 9600baud serial ports on 8mhz machines!). As long as you point the tracks to the proper ports you're good to go...
 
I have a midisport 2x2 with a set of v-drums on it, and a midi keyboard connected via usb. In cubase at least, I can record midi from one OR both devices on the same track at the same time, and when it's done, I can send it to either or both midi interfaces. MIDI is extremely flexible.
 
If you don't need USB, a MOTU Midi Timepiece AV would be an economical choice. They made two - a non-USB and a USB model. The USB ones are still work a fair amount, but the non-USB have sold for as little as $25 on eBay and they are a solid machine. They have 8 in and 8 out MIDI ports and can merged.

I have one for sale but since I'm in Hawaii the shipping would probably not work for you.

If you go to USB and use a Mac, the freebie MidiPipe will do all the merging and splitting you'd ever need, and a lot more.
 
Thanks guys!

The Motu looks a bit large and complicated for my needs - even if I can get it cheap.

I can go USB I guess - a few questions about that Midisport 2x2.
It looks like the kind of thing I want. Do I have to send the signal via USB though, or can I work it without a USB cable?

Here's what I want to achieve, just need to know if this exactly is possible. I'm fairly new to MIDI and it still confuses me a lot :D

Keyboard > Midi box in 1
Drum pads > Midi box in 2
Midi box out> Presonus MIDI Input

DAW:
Midi track 1 input Keyboard > Synth vst
Midi track 2 input Drum Pad > Drum vst

And I can now play my drumpad and keyboard and they will trigger each instrument seperately. I.e. C1 on keyboard and C1 on drum pad will not go to the same vst.

Thanks guys I appreciate your time :)
 
I would think that what you have there would work.

Or... you'd plug the keyboard and drum pads into the MBox and they would both come out the USB which would be plugged into your computer, and whatever app you're using, like Cubase, would decide the routing.

What's your MIDI keyboard? On mine (an MAudio Evolution MK-461C) you could plug the drumpads into the MIDI jack on the keyboard, and plug the keyboard into the computer via USB and that's all you'd need, you wouldn't need the MBox. As a matter of fact, most of the MAudio stuff, not just keyboards, but their controllers with pads have that feature I believe.

USB is way better in that it's 2 way - in and out.
 
Yes, my M-Audio keyboard has the same, and that one MIDI plug can be used as an input or output. It isn't just an output.

So you plug something like a drum pad controller into that MIDI jack with a MIDI cable. And a USB cable goes from the keyboard to the computer, and then the drum pad and the keyboard are both able to input into the computer via that one USB cable.

Then on Cubase (or whatever program you're using) you can select if the input is from the keyboard or the drumpads.

That's the way all 4 of the M-AUdio keyboards I've had work and I'm thinking that yours is the same.

Also, if you hook up the keyboard via USB you don't need an ac adapter for it, the power comes through the USB cable.

I almost heard a faint voice go "holy shit". :)
 
dintymoore said:
I almost heard a faint voice go "holy shit". :)
Click to expand...

That you did! :)

I trust your words, however;

The MIDI port actually says Output on it. I've looked in the manual and it says:

USB In/Out
MIDI Out

This made me think maybe I could do what you said but using the USB.

Drum pad USB out>Keyboard USB in>Keyboard Usb out>PC.

However I see no mention of this whatsoever in the manual.

Though I have found this;

MIDI Out:
The midi out port can be used to connect the keyboard to an external sound module or midi keyboard(could also mean drum pad?)By default, all controller data is sent out via the midi output as well as the usb out.
If you want the MIDI output to act like a traditional USB-to-MIDI interface, engage "Midi out from USB" mode by carrying out the following:
(some instructions)
The keyboard is now able to send data received from the computer via its MIDI OUT jack to whatever device is connected.
In order to use the MIDI output, select the Keystation USB Midi out as the Midi output device in your sequencer.


That just confused me a lot, sorry for my lack of understanding in this area :laughings:
To me, that sounds SORT OF like what you described...though I can't quite get my head around it...
You sure this keyboard does what you said?
 
Ooops, it looks like that on yours it will not act as an input... :(

But... why don't you use a USB hub? That would be way cheaper than MIDI merge type boxes like you were mentioning earlier.

You cannot "Drum pad USB out>Keyboard USB in". USB doesn't work "stand alone" between devices, it needs to go to a computer which has software for it (drivers).

MIDI is a code. 1's and zero's. It can be sent over USB OR MIDI cables. So if you're using USB cables you're still running MIDI.

If you have a desktop, maybe get a PCI USB card like I did for $30, or a USB hub. That's the way to go. I'd forget about the MIDI plugs and cables and just have your piano keyboard, drum pads and knob controller all have separate USB cables that go to your computer, and then the computer program will do all the routing and merging.

I like USB because it's like a MIDI in, MIDI out and ac power all-in-one, and that used to require 3 cables plus an ac adapter.

Sorry to send you on a wild goose chase about this but in the end that's how we learn. :)
 
dintymoore said:
If you have a desktop, maybe get a PCI USB card like I did for $30, or a USB hub. That's the way to go. I'd forget about the MIDI plugs and cables and just have your piano keyboard, drum pads and knob controller all have separate USB cables that go to your computer, and then the computer program will do all the routing and merging.
Click to expand...

Ok, will do! Thanks a lot for your help :)
 
If any of the future midi devices have a midi in you can merge the signals within that device.

IE, Keyboard out to "new Device" midi in, tell the new device not to read the midi channel or channels the keys are sending on, connect the midi out of the "new device" to the Presonus. Make sure you set the new device to send only on a channel not being used by the keys.

For example you may want to set up:
Use channel 1 for you keys
Channel 2 for bass
Channel 3 for horns etc etc

Always use channel 10 for drums as this is a standard drum channel

I usually use channel 16 for patch changes and setup commands.

Check out these links 1 2 3 4 5
To help you understand the set up.
Cheers
Alan.
 
MIDI transmits at 32k baud. That's very slow in the grand scheme of things.

If you add active devices like mergers and such, after a while you'll notice a minute delay between when you instruct a synth to do something and when it actually does it.

Music is very timing sensitive so with a lot of expressive data you can really choke things if you try hard enough.

This is because the first device takes in the data at 32K baud, processes it which takes some time, then has to retransmit it out at 32k baud.

If you use USB-based midi ports, you can buy several of them and attach them to a USB hub, then they're more in parallel and you'll not have these delayed effects anywhere near as much.

My studio is all about Midi, so years ago I purchased eight Unitor8 midi interfaces - 8x8 each - 64x64 total - the first one attaches to the PC via USB and the other seven are in series via RS422 - about a 1m baud between them so even the very last Unitor8 in the chain is very responsive almost as if it's the first one.

I used to do the merging/splitting thing before I had multiple interfaces also, and I found the timing issues to be really annoying.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Yes, I should have said that you will get away with daisy chaining 1 device but don't keep adding them in a long chain or you will hit problems. If you use a lot of midi devices or transmit a lot of midi data set it up as fredric points out above.

Cheers
Alan.
 
I was thinking about this lying in bed, and since I had to get up to take tylenol anyway, I'll post.

If you only have one midi in and one midi out, you can create a simple switch box using a rotary switch and some jacks, so you can select between input devices. Generally you're not going to be playing drum pads AND a midi keyboard at the same time if you're recording in a home studio environment. You can also buy "Midi patcher" devices as well, used on ebay and sometimes in pawn shops.

With your one midi output, you can buy or make a midi-thru box that has one midi in, and multiple, parallel midi outs, and drive multiple synths, drum machines et al. You still only have 16 midi channels out though you can program drums to be on 10, bass to be on 2, or whatever you like.

With multi-timbral synths that can respond to all 16 channels, then you need multiple midi outs that are uniquely recognized by the computer as such.
 
Since MIDI actually only uses two wires, you could make a simple box with a DPDT switch to choose between two MIDI sources.
 
I thought I'd bump this up rather than posting a new thread. But what I was wanting to know is how I can use two or more different midi controllers (specifically, two keyboards and an electronic drumkit) all connected through different USB ports to play individual instruments in FL Studio simultaneously.
 
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