Everyone give your opinion about the mentioned preamps, they all fit under the $200 category. Which one will be more versatile, easy to use or set up, cleaner. I've heard the DMP-3 signal is very clean, does the VTB-1 in SS mode give you the same clarity? Please post your opinions. The MQ3 preamp has compression and EQ in one unit, is this recommended? Are there other preamps under $200 to consider looking at?
MQ3 vs DMP3 vs VTB-1
- Thread starter Javo
- Start date
Joemeek if you want "that sound" of the opto-compressor. Lots of character, and the EQ is unique-sounding and musical.
DMP3 if you want clean, and you want the best deal in quality pres -- 2 very neutral, low-noise, lots of gain, good detail, etc.
Studio Projects if you want one good, solid channel that can sound clean, or give you a little toob grit.
DMP3 if you want clean, and you want the best deal in quality pres -- 2 very neutral, low-noise, lots of gain, good detail, etc.
Studio Projects if you want one good, solid channel that can sound clean, or give you a little toob grit.
Speeddemon
New member
I'm very happy with my DMP-3, but I did overdrive it once on a female jazzsinger... no warm tube emulation, just ugly distortion. Yes, the Korg D16 (digital harddiskrecorder) wasn't clipping internally. I had plenty of headroom left there.
Anyway, the DMP-3 performed very well with LD condensers on vocals and grand piano.
Anyway, the DMP-3 performed very well with LD condensers on vocals and grand piano.
chessparov
New member
The VTB-1 has the best pre of these three.
Chris
Chris
darrin_h2000
Banned
Its the most versitile,
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
The mic pre game is not about titles or who is best. Everyone needs them, so get what you like and what you can afford.
Opinions are like mics, eveyone has one, so buy what you like, and buy one that has the features and sound that will get your job done. Leave the big expensive stuff to those who have to have it. I still don't think the expensive stuff is that much better as technology gets better all the time.
The fact is, you can get great results with cost effective gear. You are better off spening your money on books to help you improve you enginneering skills than on more expensive gear.
If your gear is reasonable, you will get more from simply improving your recording skills.
Opinions are like mics, eveyone has one, so buy what you like, and buy one that has the features and sound that will get your job done. Leave the big expensive stuff to those who have to have it. I still don't think the expensive stuff is that much better as technology gets better all the time.
The fact is, you can get great results with cost effective gear. You are better off spening your money on books to help you improve you enginneering skills than on more expensive gear.
If your gear is reasonable, you will get more from simply improving your recording skills.
alanhyatt said:
While I admire Alan's contributions, and certainly agree with most of his sentiments, for the sake of discussion (note: discussion, not personal attack) I think it should be noted that there are exceptions - particularly in the area of musical instruments, assuming they also fall under the umbrella of "gear". A high quality classic instrument, whether it be a grand piano, violin, or guiitar is still, at least to most artists and performers, worth the price premium.
And there are at least a few vocalists who still feel that way about their recording chain as well.
There's no question, speaking as a pianist, I'm convinced I can sit blindfolded at a good Steinway and a good Kawai and tell the difference every time. But I admit, I haven't actually tried it - so maybe I'm just deluding myself.
Perhaps the same is true for vocalists - maybe they only think they could tell the difference between a Stephen Paul modded U-47 into a Telefunken pre into a blackface 1176 onto 2" tape versus a C3 into a VTB-1 into an RNC into Nuendo.
But I'm willing to bet a lot of them can.
chessparov
New member
My pet peeve, as some of you may have picked up on other threads,
is the reliance of MP3 examples to judge equipment.
How would you feel if I sent you a cassette version of three different
pre's? Clearly the VTB-1 is a good solid professional mic pre as Harvey
has also stated, along with "Dot"-Dan Richards.
The real question IMHO isn't so much "what's better than what?",
it's what's "good enough" to get the kind of sound you're aiming for.
Look at various groundbreaking efforts of Geoffrey Emerick/George Martin
with the Beatles. Sometimes they would speed up a vocal by 10% to THIN
it down-kind of an "anti-analog" approach!
The DMP3 is rather "plain vanilla" for me although it's a nice semi-pro pre.
The VTB-1 and the MQ3 have more creative flexibility IMHO.
That's where a home studio can shine anyway-in the area of creativity
over being cencerned how something compares to an Avalon/API/Neve
etc. Another area to concentrate on is focusing on performance level.
So what Jimmy Page used a Les Paul, and Hendrix used a Strat, they've both
recorded great music "despite" their difference in taste!
Chris
is the reliance of MP3 examples to judge equipment.
How would you feel if I sent you a cassette version of three different
pre's? Clearly the VTB-1 is a good solid professional mic pre as Harvey
has also stated, along with "Dot"-Dan Richards.
The real question IMHO isn't so much "what's better than what?",
it's what's "good enough" to get the kind of sound you're aiming for.
Look at various groundbreaking efforts of Geoffrey Emerick/George Martin
with the Beatles. Sometimes they would speed up a vocal by 10% to THIN
it down-kind of an "anti-analog" approach!
The DMP3 is rather "plain vanilla" for me although it's a nice semi-pro pre.
The VTB-1 and the MQ3 have more creative flexibility IMHO.
That's where a home studio can shine anyway-in the area of creativity
over being cencerned how something compares to an Avalon/API/Neve
etc. Another area to concentrate on is focusing on performance level.
So what Jimmy Page used a Les Paul, and Hendrix used a Strat, they've both
recorded great music "despite" their difference in taste!
Chris
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
littledog said:
A Steinway will not make a better player out of a piano player, and nor will a Paul Reed Smith guitar make a better player out of a guitarist who owns a Washburn guitar. However on a recorded track with a good engineer, the results will not be much different once the tracks are mixed and mastered. Remember, there are very few on these BBS's that make money at what they do. They all have day jobs!!! Including me!
Sure there are those who can tell the difference and you may be one of them, but they make their living at it, or were blessed with perfect pitch or have a gift with the ears they got when they were born. If you are a concert pianist, then you make your living at it. If you don't, then you’re not that good... All due respect.
My point is the majority of recordists at home and most of those who do know the difference will have a hard time telling things apart in a blind listening test when an experienced engineer did the recordings and matched the levels using no EQ. That is all I am saying. To be fair, it needs to be done on a system your ears are not used to; otherwise it is just personal preference.
This is why musicians should learn more about the instrument they play and become a master of it, just like a home project engineer should become proficient at recording.
The gear is getting better all the time, and we are lucky to be around for this technology. It is up to us to use this technology to the best ability we can to get the most out of it. The rest is not about what is better, it’s about what we as individual’s like.
Well, off to the beach!!!
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
chessparov said:
Couldn't have put it better Chris!!!
Every engineer, producer, and player is different. Use what you like. The object is to make "good" music, and you don't need to spend a ton to do it!
Can you think of what would have been if George Martin or Joe Meek had a VS-880 and few decent mic pres, like the VTB-1, MQ3, an RNC, and perhaps a few others when he was recording the Beatles instead of the multiple 2 Track machines tied together!!!! They had good mics because there was nothing else available at the time...Today, they would have a field day!
Middleman
Professional Amateur
Wow, just got off the Prosound site. Fletcher does not like the VTB-1.
Quote:
"I tried it with a couple of FET condensers and a dynamic and thought it pretty much sucked... sorta like a Mackie pre with a variable "Big Muff Pi" attached..."
Everybody over there is raving about the RNP however. Looks like there will be a few out there in a few weeks.
Quote:
"I tried it with a couple of FET condensers and a dynamic and thought it pretty much sucked... sorta like a Mackie pre with a variable "Big Muff Pi" attached..."
Everybody over there is raving about the RNP however. Looks like there will be a few out there in a few weeks.
chessparov
New member
Thanks Alan.
Fletcher's comment is interesting, in fact I've got some questions for him on the same thread! One thing to keep in mind, however,
there are some other top engineers like Roger Nichols or George
Massenburg who prefer to work within the digital domain over
analog because they prefer "that" sound.
Now does that mean it's time to throw out Studer reel to reels
and the like? (meant rhetorically)
If I was recording Luciano Pavarotti I'd think long and hard about
which "transparent" high end pre to use.
On the other hand for the other 99.99999% of bands/solo artists
particularly in "pop" music and its various genres if there's a "sound" you want you never know for sure where it can turn up.
In George Martin's book, "All You Need Is Ears", he talks about
how he prefers pop music to work with precisely because of this.
Should be a required reading book to help thinking outside the
box.
Oddly enough, one of Fletcher's favorite producers, the late truly
great Jimmy Miller used a cheapie mono CASSETTE player to record the guitar intro to my favorite Stone's song "Street Fighting Man".
Although I doubt we'll ever see it at Fletcher's store,
www.mercenary.com !
Chris
P.S. Alan, I think I'll be able to visit AES, look forward to meeting
you along with all the other "regular irregulars"!
(meant in the best sense of course)
Fletcher's comment is interesting, in fact I've got some questions for him on the same thread! One thing to keep in mind, however,
there are some other top engineers like Roger Nichols or George
Massenburg who prefer to work within the digital domain over
analog because they prefer "that" sound.
Now does that mean it's time to throw out Studer reel to reels
and the like? (meant rhetorically)
If I was recording Luciano Pavarotti I'd think long and hard about
which "transparent" high end pre to use.
On the other hand for the other 99.99999% of bands/solo artists
particularly in "pop" music and its various genres if there's a "sound" you want you never know for sure where it can turn up.
In George Martin's book, "All You Need Is Ears", he talks about
how he prefers pop music to work with precisely because of this.
Should be a required reading book to help thinking outside the
box.
Oddly enough, one of Fletcher's favorite producers, the late truly
great Jimmy Miller used a cheapie mono CASSETTE player to record the guitar intro to my favorite Stone's song "Street Fighting Man".
Although I doubt we'll ever see it at Fletcher's store,
www.mercenary.com !
Chris
P.S. Alan, I think I'll be able to visit AES, look forward to meeting
you along with all the other "regular irregulars"!
(meant in the best sense of course)
darrin_h2000
Banned
Originally posted by chessparov
So what Jimmy Page used a Les Paul, and Hendrix used a Strat, they've both
recorded great music "despite" their difference in taste!
Chris
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, Jimmy Page played through telecasters, into a supro amp. Live though was a different story. They had a contract with Gibson to only have his pictures taken with Gibsons, similer to the same deal that KISS had in the 70s. KISS had a more detailed deal that forced Simmons to play those god awful Ripper Basses.
So what Jimmy Page used a Les Paul, and Hendrix used a Strat, they've both
recorded great music "despite" their difference in taste!
Chris
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, Jimmy Page played through telecasters, into a supro amp. Live though was a different story. They had a contract with Gibson to only have his pictures taken with Gibsons, similer to the same deal that KISS had in the 70s. KISS had a more detailed deal that forced Simmons to play those god awful Ripper Basses.
darrin_h2000
Banned
Wow, just got off the Prosound site. Fletcher does not like the VTB-1.
Quote:
"I tried it with a couple of FET condensers and a dynamic and thought it pretty much sucked... sorta like a Mackie pre with a variable "Big Muff Pi" attached..."
Everybody over there is raving about the RNP however. Looks like there will be a few out there in a few weeks.
That figures, hes selling the RNP. he wouldnt want foul up his deal with FMR, by reccomending a competitors pre that is half the price. Lesson , the salesman is the enemy.
Quote:
"I tried it with a couple of FET condensers and a dynamic and thought it pretty much sucked... sorta like a Mackie pre with a variable "Big Muff Pi" attached..."
Everybody over there is raving about the RNP however. Looks like there will be a few out there in a few weeks.
That figures, hes selling the RNP. he wouldnt want foul up his deal with FMR, by reccomending a competitors pre that is half the price. Lesson , the salesman is the enemy.
chessparov
New member
True Darrin, I should have remembered that about the Page/Telecaster thing.
In fairness to Fletcher, if he likes the VTB-1 I bet we'll see it as part of the Mercenary catalog. They stock RNC's along with
Distressors, etc. Fletcher has had loads of experience with top
quality gear. At the risk of sounding redundant, that's why I
posted the Nichols/Massenburg example.
He really is a pro engineer first, and a sales "consultant" a distant
second IMHO. I like the fact he knows so much about the history
of different gear lore, and genuinely cares about sound quality
albeit somewhat controversial at times.
Whereas...
Some pro engineers have more of a "gear nut" dimension to them like our very own Alan Hyatt and Harvey Gerst!
Whether they sell their own stuff like Alan, or run a studio like
Harvey they love to talk gear. And that's also a good thing!
Alan and I have have several animated conversations about the
VTB-1 where a third party might think it's two enthusiastic college
age musicians getting excited about exchanging different musical ideas. I can only imagine how much fun Alan, Stephen, and Brent
are having!
Chris
P.S. Hoperfully the redoubtable Fletcher will be at AES too.
In fairness to Fletcher, if he likes the VTB-1 I bet we'll see it as part of the Mercenary catalog. They stock RNC's along with
Distressors, etc. Fletcher has had loads of experience with top
quality gear. At the risk of sounding redundant, that's why I
posted the Nichols/Massenburg example.
He really is a pro engineer first, and a sales "consultant" a distant
second IMHO. I like the fact he knows so much about the history
of different gear lore, and genuinely cares about sound quality
albeit somewhat controversial at times.
Whereas...
Some pro engineers have more of a "gear nut" dimension to them like our very own Alan Hyatt and Harvey Gerst!
Whether they sell their own stuff like Alan, or run a studio like
Harvey they love to talk gear. And that's also a good thing!
Alan and I have have several animated conversations about the
VTB-1 where a third party might think it's two enthusiastic college
age musicians getting excited about exchanging different musical ideas. I can only imagine how much fun Alan, Stephen, and Brent
are having!
Chris
P.S. Hoperfully the redoubtable Fletcher will be at AES too.
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
darrin_h2000 said:
darrin,
You're response is very interesting. About 8 days or so ago, I was traveling the East coast visiting dealers with my rep and had lunch with Fletcher. I went to his location to see his facility, and basically just an opportunity to get to know him a bit better, and for him to get to know me a bit better.
After a few drinks, and a very good lunch which he paid for by the way, things were looking good. We discussed a lot of things and product ideas for the future. Well after lunch, I bought a lot of rounds, and before you know it, Fletcher and I were basically in the tank, high five's and all that shit, but it was good. I saw a side of Fletcher I never saw before, and I really had a good respect for him, and I just liked the guy.
We did not talk much about Studio Projects, and I understand why, but somewhere during our stupor, I pulled out the VTB-1 to tell him it would be a good unit to sell along side an RNC. So he said for me to send him a VTB-1 as he would like to try it. He even said it felt well built, and I was about to send him one, but now that I see his post, I am just curious where he got one to try.
We were sold out at the time and had none until the other day when our shipment came, so where the hell did he get one? I know it was not from my rep because he had to leave it for someone else, which is why I was going to send one to Fletcher anyway and I still will.
I know he does not carry our stuff, and I understand why he feels that way, but I guess I just could not understand anyone saying that the VTB-1 sucks. Its not a Neve, or a Manley, but it is well built, well featured, and a whole lot of credible people have said some very good things about it, so sucks is a harsh word, but who knows...Opinions are just that...
Anyway, I am sure I will speak to him soon, and if he feels that way, well that is OK. He does have to get behind the RNP, and that is also OK by me. Fletcher’s opinions are not the only ones that count in the greater scheme of things. Either way, Fletcher and I will be friends. You just can’t help but like the guy when you’re with him.
I know the VTB-1 is a very good mic pre for $179.00. For the price, I still think it can't be beat by any similar priced mic-pre. The RNP is more than twice the price with no features, so it is not really in competition with it. The VTB-2 will compete with the RNP when it is out. Until then, the VTB-1 is selling well and keeps getting lots of good press from end users. That is all that matters to me, but it was an interesting observation on your part...