More or just the right amount....

B

Basslord1124

New member
Ok, I do want to point out that I am no way against upgrading (you'll find out in minute) but do have certain feelings towards it.

Ok, the problem I'm currently having (since I've already picked a mobo which is the Asus A7A266) is what processor to get. I have came to the conclusion though that I'll get an Athlon but now it's a matter of what kind (T-Bird, XP...) My mobo supports speeds up to 1.2Ghz or so it seems that is what I've read. I posted a message on another message board (harmony-central) and someone there suggested for me to get at least an XP 1700+. I looked at that processor to see the speed and it was like a 1.4. I have emailed asus to see if that mobo can support bigger processors than a 1.2...I'm still awaiting a response though. But as I've said it once and I'll say it again, I probably will not be doing 50+ tracks or anything (of anything it's at most like 20 tracks). So my original decision was to stick with a 1.2...I felt that'd be just fine, especially since I know some people here *cough* Gidge *cough* get by with much much less than a 1.2 and have good results. I know sometimes it's good to buy a little extra (especially in the case of RAM) but I want to keep the price of this system down and really feel that a 1.4 is not really worth the hassle if I can probably do just fine with a 1.2...as well as the hassle of tossing out some extra dollars for processing power I may never use. But then again, who knows. The thing I have is should I follow the one guy's advice and go with a 1.4 (assuming asus says it's all right) or just stick with my original decision. I'm one of those people who sort of believe in upgrading if your current setup begins to show limitations.

I know some guys on the harmony-central board felt concerned that I said I was going to try to build a system between $500-$700. They felt it was too cheap and as they put it buying behind the curve . They recommended like some $1200 for a good system. I mean I know if I had all kinds of money I'm sure I'd splurge a little bit on it but I don't, and so I'd like to create a system that's within my budget and can fit my needs very well. For example the guys on HC suggested 2 60 gig hard drives but for my uses and my anal retentive ways of conserving hard drive space :D I don't need 2 60 gig hard drives. I feel my decision for 1 20 gig (OS, apps) and one 40 gig (audio) will suit me perfectly. I say as long as CD's don't become obsolete I probably won't upgrade much to my system. As long as it has the ability to record my takes and play em back without problems I'll be fine. Ughh, I don't know. Help!
 
"As long as it has the ability to record my takes and play em back without problems I'll be fine. Ughh, I don't know. Help!"


That's the key right there! You're torn between wanting the latest and greatest, and what you can reasonably afford.

You can never win at this game. You'll always be one step behind, unless you consider it a hobby and want to contiually invest in upgrading you computer.

As you pointed out, you can ( and many of us do) record without Athlon XP 1700s

Twist
 
Cant offer much for the proccessor ? as I use pentiums. If you go for the latest, greatist you will pay dearly for it. Stay a little behind the newest and save some dough with room to grow.
Ram is cheap now, go with at least 256mb. Your hard drives as you suggested should be fine. 1 for programs and 1 dedicated to audio. Try and go with 7200rpm.
 
I'd rather buy under the curve than over it!!!

Take a look at any computer component price...let's say CPU's. Notice how the price varies as you go up in processor performance (we'll look at Pentiums because it's easier):

P4 1.5Ghz: $126 = $84/Ghz
P4 1.6Ghz: $131 = $81.88/Ghz
P4 1.7Ghz: $153 = $90/Ghz
P4 1.8Ghz: $186 = $103/Ghz
P4 1.9Ghz: $231 = $121.5/Ghz
P4 2.0Ghz: $336 = $168/Ghz
P4 2.2Ghz: $468 = $212.73/Ghz

Interesting, no? A P4 2Ghz CPU will in theory give you 1.3X the processing power of the 1.5Ghz, but will cost you twice as much per cycle to do it. Is it a good buy? I don't think so. Buying as much power as you possibly can is a waste of money. When processors hit the market, they are always very high in price, and always have been. In 4-6 months you'll see the price cut in half or more, because the new latest greatest processor will have hit the market, and it'll be super expensive.

I always advise to buy right where the curve starts to shoot up. A lot of this depends on how much power you'll be comfortable with, but in this case I think that something in the 1.6 to 1.8Ghz range would be the best, and I'd probably go with the 1.6 to be honest. The 1.5 is obviously a waste of money, and anything 1.9 or over is just too much for too little.

The reasoning behind this is that next year, the average priced processors of today will still be adequate, AND the better processors will be considerably cheaper, making upgrading all that more attractive at that time. Always stay just a little bit behind the game and you WILL come out ahead.

Case in point: I built my original DAW around a 400Mhz Celeron processor. I think I got the thing for like $70 at the time, and I put it on a motherboard that had some upgrade potential. Recently, I upgraded to a Celeron 850Mhz for $45. Total cost: $115. Now, if I had bought an 850Mhz processor almost three years ago, it would have cost me a hell of a lot more than $115. In fact, I bet it would have cost me 3 to 4 times as much. I'm going to get about 4-5 years out of $115. Really, that's what it's all about. Having a useable machine for as LONG as possible, spending the least amount of money.

This logic applies to all hardware. Don't run out and buy a 160GB hard drive for $250. Buy a 60GB drive for $80, and in a year or two when you finally start filling the sucker up, buy a 100GB drive for $80, because that's what they'll be down to by then, and you'll be $90 ahead. It doesn't pay to have extra HD storage sitting around unused.

And so on and so forth.

Now, I think that building a box from scratch for $500 is BARELY reasonable, if you don't include a monitor or any accessories OR shipping OR a soundcard. Spend at least $110 to $120 on your motherboard, don't cheap out! Buy a motherboard that can take twice the CPU you're going to put in it (if possible).

CPU: $120
Mobo: $120
OS HD: $60
Audio HD: $80
Memory: $60
Video: $50
Case & 300W Athlon Approved PS: $50
CDROM: $30

= $510 (w/o shipping)

If you're going to want an entire system (monitor, CDRW, etc), all included except the soundcard, then you're looking in the $1000 range, give or take $100 here and there. $1200 for a complete system is not unreasonable, in fact it's a very good price point. Factor in a prosumer soundcard and you'll add from $200 to $1000 to the cost.

This shit's not cheap. It sure seems like it would be when you find out that most components are around $100 or less....but when you realize just how many components are required...man...it gets expensive real fast.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Thanks for the replies so far everyone! :) Here is sort of a run down of my list so you can make suggestions:

1) Mobo-Asus A7A266
2) Processor-still deciding...obviously an Athlon though.
3) Hard drives: 1 Maxtor 20gig 5400 or 7200rpm (I'll decide later) and 1 Maxtor 40gig 7200rpm.
4) Memory-256MB DDR Ram
5) Soundcard-Audiophile 2496
6) Video Card-not sure
7) CPU cooler-not sure
8) Case w/ 300W power supply
9) Keyboard & Mouse
10) Monitor (probably 17")
11) CD Burner

Hopefully that's everything. As you can see a lot of it's uncertain right now mainly b/c I've been spending a lot of time researching the mobo and processor. I did email Midiman to get a list of compatible chipsets and mobo's and they gave me a list of ones that worked the best with the Audiophile (believe it or not a VIA chipset was one of them)....hence where the choice for the mobo came from. If I remember right, someone here has that same mobo and runs it with a 1.2 T Bird...same soundcard too. Probably the only other addition will be either the Audiobuddy or a Behringer 6 channel mixer (both are the same price but I'll probably get the mixer) and of course monitors. I figure I'll hit some local computer conventions to see if I can get some good deals on some of the stuff. I'm not sure how much all this will run but I thought it wouldn't too bad. But anyways, if you got any suggestions or recommendations, let me know. Thanks everyone.
 
I'll go ahead and post this too. Here are the mobos/chipsets that Midiman said worked best with the Audiophile:

Pentium:
Asus P3B-F(P II)
Asus CUBX(P III)
Asus CUSL2C(P III)
Asus TUSL2C(P III)
Most mobos with an Intel 815 chipset(PIII)
Most mobos with an Intel 850 chipset(Pentuim 4, Rambus DRAM)
Most mobos with an Intel 845 chipset(P4, PC133 SDRAM)

AMD:
Asus A7A(AMD chipset, Athlon)
Abit KG-7 Lite NA(no audio)(AMD chipset, Athlon)
MSI K7T Pro 2-A(VIA chipset, Athlon)
 
Well if you're completely decided on the Athlon, then you better get one of the recommended motherboards.

I'll put out some estimates & more info:

1) Mobo-Asus A7A266

I didn't see that one on the list. It'll probably work though. BTW, I have an A7V133 and it's a piece of shit. Avoid it at all costs.

$120

2) Processor-still deciding...obviously an Athlon though.

I'd go with the Athlon XP 1700, and I'd get it retail. Why retail? A retail processor will come with a stock heatsink and fan (that will *work*) and a 3 year warrant. Plus, it will only cost $15 more or so, which is typically the cost of buying a seperate fan/heatsink. (e.g. I'm seeing the XP 1700 OEM for as low as $110 on pricewatch, and retail for $126. That's only 16 bucks more and is worth it)

$126

3) Hard drives: 1 Maxtor 20gig 5400 or 7200rpm (I'll decide later) and 1 Maxtor 40gig 7200rpm.

I recently saw Maxtor 7200RPM 20GB drives for like $65, and Maxtor 7200RPM 40GB drives for $80 OEM. I would recommend OEM for hard drives, because regardless of where you buy the drive or its packaging, the warranty will be with Maxtor, and will typically be a couple years or better. Maxtor has a great warranty service.

4) Memory-256MB DDR Ram

$70 or so for the good stuff? I like crucial.com.

5) Soundcard-Audiophile 2496

$150

6) Video Card-not sure

Any simple TNT2 Vanta card will work (e.g. nVidia chipset). These will typically be 16MB AGP cards. Typical cost: $40.

7) CPU cooler-not sure

See #2.

8) Case w/ 300W power supply

$50. You can find cases with Althon approved power supplies at a lot of places. Tigerdirect has a huge selection. Shipping a case ground will be $20, so it's good to lump a bunch of extra stuff in with the case (unless they charge shipping per component).

9) Keyboard & Mouse

$30. Get a decent little mouse like a Microsoft Intellimouse.

10) Monitor (probably 17")

Buy your monitor locally if possible. $140 for a 17" is about what I'd expect to pay.

11) CD Burner

Get a decent Plextor, Yamaha, or Sony. Max burn speed should be at least 8X. $120


Total so far without shipping costs: $990

Gets spendy real fast eh?

Slackmaster 2000
 
Basslord,

id have a smoking system if i had the $$$$....but like i posted before, i rather give my wife and kids a house, food, clothes, a visit to Toys-R-Us every weekend.....50 million Barbies, a new bike, Disney World every year.......you get the picture....

i do fine with my 500mhz celeron (16-24 tracks with about 6 plugins)......i may do a cheapo upgrade myself soon....just a MB,case,ps) i already have tons of pc133 ram, 7200 rpm drives, the soundcard i want......im happy with track counts now, id just like a few more plugins and the security of a more stable MB.....

my advice is pretty much like Slacks...buy BEHIND the technology...i just buy a little bit further behind......
 
and BTW, in alot of places, youd have to pay BIG MONEY to get the advice you just recieved from Slack in his last post......
 
Basslord,

For what it's worth, I just built a system couple weeks ago, and it's been rock solid so far. Here's some handy tips:

I'm running an Abit motherboard based on the VIA kt266a chipset, and it hasn't given me any problems with my Delta 1010.

If you're going with an Athlon CPU, I'd make sure and get a case that has at least one intake fan up front and one exhaust in the rear. These CPUs run pretty hot, and as a general rule you can expect more stability at lower case temperatures.

I noticed you're looking at Maxtor HDs. Allow me to endorse the liquid bearing version of the DiamondMax series. They're nice and quiet. You can barely tell they're working. You can pick these out by the "L" at the end of their model number. I got mine for $75 for the 20GB flavor at:

www.newegg.com

I had good luck with them, and their reputation amongst nerds is very good.

Here's a couple links you may or may not have checked out:

www.amdmb.com
www.tomshardware.com

Also, listen to Slack, he's smart. :)
 
Thanks for the price info Slack...now I feel like an idiot LOL, eh what else can you say, I'm a newbie! :( I guess the reality of prices doesn't sink in until you see it...like I said I've been researching mobo's and processors so I never really got around to pricing the other goodies. Now in regards to the Asus A7A motherboard technically it's the motherboard I'm getting but as I've seen, the added numbers are the mhz of FSB it has...so there are 2 flavors for the motherboard...133 and 266. There is no motherboard just called the A7A...at least if there is I haven't seen it and I've looked on pricewatch.com and asus's webpage. Thanks for the input Slack. Guess I should add some money to your offering plate :D

Thanks for your suggestions lame thrower...especially about the Maxtor drives...the idea sounds pretty sweet! Quiet is a good thing hehe. And believe me, I've got a handful of links, newegg, pricewatch, tom's hardware, various articles, etc. Don't have the amd link though, I'll check it out.

Sorry if I came across rather cocky but just give me a few slaps and set me straight and I'll be cool. :) As I said, I'm a newbie and this is a lot of info to take in...but I think I can handle it...after all computers is one of the things I'm into. And I'm up to learn as much as I can. Thanks all!
 
Oh I didn't think you were being cocky.

Are you sure M-Audio said "A7A" and not "A7V"?? You might ask for a clarification if so.

Slackmaster 2000
 
man I've responded to my own post more than anyone else has, oh my LOL. Didn't think I sounded cocky? all righty, that's cool I guess (sometimes I think I might sound it at times). What I posted on compatible mobos/chipsets was copied and pasted right from the email so it's A7A. I can ask about the A7V I guess to see if it's compatible with the audiophile...my assumption is yes but never hurts to check. I'll check out the mobo too when I get a chance. Thanks "once" again. :)
 
twist said:
That's the key right there! You're torn between wanting the latest and greatest, and what you can reasonably afford.

You can never win at this game. You'll always be one step behind, unless you consider it a hobby and want to contiually invest in upgrading you computer.

As you pointed out, you can ( and many of us do) record without Athlon XP 1700s

Twist
Click to expand...


ughh here I am responding to my own post again LOL. Someone shut me up :D But honestly, Twist I think you response is very close to what I am referring to (despite all my recent responses to slack and everyone else). To be quite honest I don't really consider price to be too much of a factor (although as I've said before I'd like to keep the price down). What I am really referring to is performance vs. user's needs. For instance does a musician who records acoustic guitar and vocals need a P4 1.7Ghz processor? My answer would be no obviously. You get the idea.

I will say though that after surfing some of the prices with CPU's on pricewatch I could get an Athlon XP 1700+ with the heatsink, etc. for the same price as an Athlon Tbird 1.2 with a heatsink, etc. That's a no brainer right there. I think the TBird's had 200mhz FSB and something tells me I have to get the FSB's to match between mobo and CPU...which in my case is 266 so I might be sticking with an XP processor. Kinda wish I could hear back from Asus. Although maybe some of you all could answer it, here's what it says: AMD Athlon/Duron processors of 500MHz up to 1.2GHz+. Do you think it's possible for it to support higher processors than a 1.2? I mean the + sign somehow indicates that to me but I'm not sure. Also Slack, on the A7V...I've looked into that mobo and it says the dreaded word VIA :( ...is there a certain model that's not a VIA chipset?
 
When it comes to AMD processors, VIA is a good word. Hehe. VIA makes the best AMD chipsets, which is why AMD systems are so difficult to buy.

Slackmaster 2000
 
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