Monitor positioning

6

69ShadesofRed

New member
OK, I have a dillema that I hope someone will give me a sound advice on.

I have a pair of Mackie HR824s. They are sitting on my desk, but I am thinking of getting some pads to lift them. As they are right now, the tweeters are about ear height, and in my normal sitting position the monitors and my head are equidistant. The thing is, in this position, I have a feeling that I am getting some serious bass buildup (my synth/workstation, is right infront of the monitors). When I crouch a little so that my ears are about in-between the tweeters and woofers, I hear less bass. But at the same time I hear some major timbral shifts in the mids and highs as well. The problem is, I am not quite sure which position sounds accurate.

So my question is, what's the method for finding the correct monitor position that sounds accurate... and most importantly, how do you know what you hear is accurate w/o any specialized tools?

I also hear/read conflicting theories on monitor positioning. Some sources say that the tweeters should be the same height as the ears, even if you have to position monitors sideways or upside down. Other sources claim that the ears should be about mid level between the tweeters and the woofers. Also, some say that the monitors should be angled down or up, or not.

Can someone please shed some light on this madness? Right now, my mixes are hit or miss, some translate well, some sound like shit, and it's mostly because I hear different things w/minor changes in my listening position.

Thank you.
 
Your mackies should have a manual that tells you where the sweet spot is. If you are getting drastic changes with slight movement then you are probably too close to them.
 
I would expect tonal changes from movement to be at least partly connected with comb filtering from hard reflections. Room surfaces for one, but I was wondering if the desk extends much forward of the speakers? Could that be one also?
Wayne
 
TexRoadkill said:
Your mackies should have a manual that tells you where the sweet spot is. If you are getting drastic changes with slight movement then you are probably too close to them.
Click to expand...

True,
The manual does have this info. The 824s also have switches in the back for cases like when they are close to walls or in the middle of the room etc.

I downloaded this program that runs from pc that generates sinewaves. At diff freqs I would walk around the room to look for drastic changes or freqs that cancel or die. This is how I found most of my problems. The biggest improvement for my room was some cheap @ss foam bass traps. I was pleased enough with them. Those 824s were driving me crazy with the lower freqs.

Also a few pyramids here and there wouldnt hurt.

Malcolm
 
malcolm123 said:
I downloaded this program that runs from pc that generates sinewaves. At diff freqs I would walk around the room to look for drastic changes or freqs that cancel or die. This is how I found most of my problems. The biggest improvement for my room was some cheap @ss foam bass traps. I was pleased enough with them. Those 824s were driving me crazy with the lower freqs.

Also a few pyramids here and there wouldnt hurt.

Malcolm
Click to expand...
Running sinewaves in an untreated room, or setting one and moving around in the room, is just plain freaky. It'll make a believer out of you quick for sure.
Ever wonder how treatments can be so far down the list is most 'HighEnd' audio boutique stores?
:D
Wayne
 
As long as you're at least 3ft away from your monitors, changing your listening height by a few inches shouldn't cause a huge response change.

My guess is the majority of your problems are due to reflections from the walls, ceiling, mixing board, etc. Check out my 2D Wall Bounce Calculator to see what a drastic effect just the front and side walls can have on your sound. Move the listening position around a little to see how positionally dependent that messed up response is.

Thomas

http://barefootsound.com
 
That's pretty cool Thomas. Thanks.

When do you think the 3D version will be ready? Is there anyway to figure out the ceiling effects with the 2D? Can you substitute the ceiling for the side dimensions with a 0 degree speaker angle to get a good guess?
 
Yeah, that will work, but you won't necessarily know whether the remaining wall reflection constructively or destructively interferes with the two that you're looking at. Know what I mean? :)

Lots of work on my plate lately, so I'm not sure when I'll get around to the 3D. Probably a couple of weeks.


Thomas
 
Thank you all for the ideas and suggestions. I have suspected that I am sitting too close to the monitors, and they are also probably too close to each other. The monitors do sit at the edge of the desk, but my Kurzweil K2600 is right in front of them... the monitors are set so that their outer edges about match the outer edges.

The monitors themselves are setup so that they are in the middle of the room, so they are not close to any walls or corners, and I've set the switches appropriately for "full space".

The room itself is untreated, except for some shelves, sofas and a bed. The room is somewhat irregular, there are parallel walls, but one section of the room is wider than the other. Also it has cathedral ceiling. I do get bass buildup around the corners, and when I sit on the floor, but that's not really a problem in my sitting position... or maybe it is. That's the thing, how do you figure where it is too much and where it is too low?

Malcolm, about that program. Can you tell me what it is? Well, actually I could just play sine waves from the synth, and walk around... what frequencies should I be looking for? At what level? Do you just hold one frequency for a while, or do you cycle through different frequencies (I could setup the sequencer to do this while I am walking around the room). Bottom line, what am I supposed to look for? Do I set it up so that all sines register the same level on the meters and see if I hear the same apparent loudness? This wouldn't work, as low frequencies need to be at higher level to have the same apparent level... I am so confused :o

Barefoot... I tried to check out your calculator but the link doesn't work :(

Thank you all for the suggestions, and the help.
 
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