Modeling technology: Give your thoughts and comments. This not Good vs Evil or a Poll

alonso

alonso

New member
I just wanted to start saying that it is amazing all the things that have been modeled out there, amps, cabs, mics and now Line 6 will put out a modeling guitar!!!!!!!! Some could argue that nothing can beat recording a classic amp at full volume, maybe they are right, but for the home recording artist like myself, I dont´t have the money or the option to record an amp at full blast at home. God save my POD 2.0!!!!!!!! Could something be even better than the real thing??? It is just a matter of taste.....What experiences does anyone have to share?
 
The POD models, and high volume is a problem right? Jack your POD into a small, clean power amp that's bidgeable to 8 ohms
(Carver PM 125, Samson Servo 120, etc.). Jack that into a 1X12 or 2X12 8 ohm cab. Put the cab inside a plywood box lined with 2 or 3 layers of carpet remnants. Mic it up with a Shure SM-57 or other mic of choice, bolt is shut, and rock on! The distortions/effects will come through clear as a bell at a much lower SPL than cranking even a practice amp, and the "monster in a box" will reduce bleed, outside noises, and reduce your apparent volume a great deal more. Hell, if you want to , you can then stick the box monster in a handy closet!-Richie
 
Personally, I think the true power of all this latest technology will come when people start using it more to look ahead for new sounds rather than trying to model the sounds of the past.

Fuck the reformation, I want revolution!

barefoot
 
Yeah, when people start messing around with this stuff some will surely find some new and cool uses for it all.
 
The key word is "MODEL"....

...which is a representation of something else....

IMO, the real thing will always be the most realistic (obviously) -- but that doesn't necessarily imply that the real thing is always preferable....
 
Sometimes you´re not even moved by the real thing either. I have heard a lot of songs on the radio from these new rock groups that dominate the waves where I´m sure the guitar was recorded in the best studio with the best gear and console, and I still don´t like the sound, maybe I could have gotten a better sound for myself with my POD.:D
 
Has anyone used a modeling device for a professional live performance or recording session?
 
Not a POD, but I once used the line 6 amp farm for a cd, its a protools plugin. THe studio we went to was all into the direct thing, the only miced up instrument was the voice. Even his taylor acoustic went direct...

The guitars sounded all right, at the time. Now I realized miking a cabinet in my basement sounds better. But maybe it was just the engineer...
 
I like my Bass POD because the entire sound is "realized" before it hits my amp. The EQ, amp model, compression, effects, speaker simulation, and volume. I can go from a jazz sound to a heavy metal sound just by changing presets.
 
I don´t know if my guitar player friend is full of shit but he says that he does not modeling amps because he feels like the notes are sucked in after he plays them, and that he feels there is a nanosecond delay between the time he plays and when the sound actually comes out. He says that he cannot also fell the crack or crunch of a real amp, he felt it while playing a Jonsohn modeling amp that is supposed to cost a load of money.
 
I don´t know how many of these bad experiences with modeling devices is caused by a failure of expertise of the person using or recording it or by the unit´s weaknesses. Maybe some people need to tweak some more before they use their modeler.
 
I've owned a Boss GT-3 for 5 years, which had some early COSM modelling. It sucked tone, it had bad dynamics and the response was sluggish. I had some decent pre-sets in it, but they mostly found use for direct recording, not for playing live.
I've played in bands with different Line6 amps, and although they sound decent ON THEIR own, as soon as the whole band kicks in, your sound 'remains in the amp'...it lacks punch. Your friend is right about the nano-second delay when playing digital stuff. I've noticed this AD/DA latency myself too.

I'm gonna buy a Digitech Genesis 3 solely for harddiskrecording. after I a/b-ed it vs. the POD and the J-Station, the G3 was clearly the winner, with better response and dynamics. And better sound ofcourse.
 
Alonso. Tech21 is a company that makes the Sansamp GT2 and PSA-1 amongst others. Most people claim that the PSA-1 is today the most accurate tube-like modeller... (it costs around $600)

visit www.tech21nyc.com for more info on different products. They also make great practice amps, and wah pedals.
 
alonso said:
I don´t know if my guitar player friend is full of shit but he says that he does not modeling amps because he feels like the notes are sucked in after he plays them, and that he feels there is a nanosecond delay between the time he plays and when the sound actually comes out. He says that he cannot also fell the crack or crunch of a real amp, he felt it while playing a Jonsohn modeling amp that is supposed to cost a load of money.
Click to expand...

I haven't noticed the latency but I would agree about the crunch. The POD really doesn't do a dirty sound very well. It's okay for full on compressed distortion but that's about all I like on it.
 
My thoughts exactly, Tex. The first time I played through a POD, it was in quite the high-end studio setup (POD->Apogee AD-->Pro Tools TDM->Lexicon reverb plug-in-->Genelec 1031A monitors)
and THEN (and ONLY THEN!) it sounded pretty nice, but not excellent. Then when I played in various stores through headphones, it all gave me the same impression:
-no REAL clean sounds (like JC120 type clean)
-has an overall muddy and dirty sound
-Soldano pre and JCM800 are the best of the bunch
-effects are next to useless
-has a slight latency in playing, has little dynamics and doesn't respond like a real amp, when backing off your guitar volume knob.

Apart from the sturdy housing and the Soldano pre, the Digitech Genesis 3 does very well in all the other departments.
I still haven't tried the Behringer V-amp2 though, and I might give it a spin soon, if I can hook it up next to the Genesis 3. Remember, V-Amp seems to be more of a POD-copy, whereas the Genesis 3 seems more of a big evolution of the Johson J-Station (both Johnson and Digitech are owned by Harman)
The J-Station already smoked the POD to my ears, since the J-Station DID respond better to playing dynamics and less guitar volume. Also the J-Station had better clean sounds.
But if you try the Genesis 3 with the blackface model or the clean tube amp, you'll know what a GREAT CLEAN TUBE SOUND is... with the whole enchillada about the holy grail of tube break up...

I've played some big modelling amps as well, and from the cheaper ones, I really liked the Yamaha DG100's clean and crunch sounds.
If I had to rate the current modelling types available that I've played with or heard, it would be like this:

1)Hughes and Kettner Zentera
2)Tech21NYC Sansamp PSA-1(based on samples I heard from their site)
3)Digitech Genesis 3
4)Yamaha DG100
5)Line 6 Amp Farm (Pro Tools plug in)
6)Johnson J-Station
7)Behringer V-Amp2 (based on samples I heard from their site)
8)Line6 POD/Flextone II
9)Roland COSM (as found in Boss GT-3)
10)Korg REMS (found in my D16 recorder; clean sounds rule, but high gain stuff really sucks and is at best only suited for lead, not for palm muted rhythm sounds)

So, I haven't tried the Fender Cybertwin, the Vox Valvetronix amps, or Zoom's VAMS modelling.
But given the prices on the units in my top 10, I'd say the Genesis 3, PSA-1 and V-amp2 are the clear winners within their price-class and beyond.
 
Speed: the name Digitech really makes my hair stand on their own because all I've heard from them are crappy sounds from them multieffects pedals, but I haven't heard the Genesis 3, maybe they got better.....:rolleyes:
 
I very much prefer the V-AMP over POD, the V-AMPS sounds a lot fuller and has better effects.
But I only use it for songwriting demos, and some last minute overdubs in session. Real amps rule!

Amund
 
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