modelers

M

mojka

New member
for computer recording my attnetion has been brought to guitar amp modelers such as POD. What the hell are these things all about?
 
Well, when you get a great tone out of a great amp onto tape, the end result is a recorded signal, right?

If you digitize that signal, and you're really smart and know your math and physics, you can examine that signal, compare it to the raw signal thatcomes off a guitar's pickups, and figure out ways to process the raw signal digitally so that it comes out very very close to the signal you're trying to emulate. You basically some up with a set of algorithms to process the signal, and those algorithms constitute a digital/mathematical model of whatever happened to the raw guitar signal in the first place to makje the end result sound so great -- hence the use of the term modeling. It goes further -- they try to emulate the way the bass and treble and mid controls on a given amp effect the end result, as well as what happens to the tone when the amp breaks up, and try their darndedest to mimic all that behavior too with adjustable parameters.

Repeat with six or ten or sixteen or thirty different desirable amps, until you've got a set of algorithms for six or six or ten or sixteen or thirty different models.

Add effects, MIDI control of parameters, put it in a red bean-shaped housing, and call it a POD.
 
Can you manipulate the presets to create unique tones or that require a Phd in mathematics as well as physics?
 
Yeah, most of the parameters are adjustable, but it's more like getting different sounds out of a set of real amps by adjusting their volume and tone controls, or playing through different speaker cabinets, than being able to create new tones. At least the POD is that way. Digitech's modelers tout a feature whereby you can "warp" different models together in some deeper way.
 
Th reason I ask is simply that I am in the middle of deciding whether to buy an amp to mic or a modeler that I can easily record into my computer. With a 3 and 5 year old night time is the onlt time to record really. What might you recommend AlChuck?
 
I have the j-station modeler ($150).It is one of the choices out there.The J has lots of modelled famous tones like Fender and Mashall,Mesa Boogie,etc.The effects section is real good as well.The internal processing and S/PDIF output are 24 bit,which is very clean for recording purposes.Here is a clip using the j for both clean and distortion guitars,to give you an idea how it sounds.The accompanying j-edit software makes tweaking the parameters as easy as if turning an analog knob.
 
In your situation the modeler is the next best option to actually micing an amp. The whole house can be sound asleep, while the guitars are just wailin'. In most cases, trained ears can tell the subtle differences, but the results are quite acceptable for homerecording.

Besides the POD, there are many others you could audition at your local music store. Johnson J Station for one. Yamaha makes one too.


Twist
 
I use a POD and I think it's excellent. But it is pricey compared to the Johnson J-Station at $149. Besides the afore-mentioned Yamaha DG-Stomp, there are many modeling devices, some combined with excellent multi-effects, from Digitech, Zoom, Behringer...

There are also modeling amps -- the same basic idea but including a power amp and speaker cabinet. These all have direct recording outs, so they can serve double duty. I have heard very good things about the Vox Valvesonic amps, which are cheap compared to most of the others of its ilk on the market.
 
IMHO, Tech21 makes the most realistic emulators out there. At least in the sense of how they react to your playing. They just seem to sing better than the modelers. Especially when playing in higher positions up the neck and when bending.

Hell, I can get my GT2 to get that layered even order harmonic borderline feedback tone without using a speaker (and without using some dedicated feedback algorithm). It seems to sustain forever. I also have the PSA-1 which is even more amazing, but a little expensive and a bit noisey on the real high gain settings. My Tech21 SansAmps sound so good, I'll sometimes choose them over my Mesa/Boogies and Fender.

Keep in mind the SansAmps do not include effects. They just give great tone.

Tech21 also makes combos that can be mic'ed or used direct for late night sessions.

You can audition them at
www.tech21nyc.com
(go to the "sounds" section)


However, nothing beats a good mic'ed amp for pure tone.

Matt
 
Lopp,
Do you find GT2 noisy. I have one and I like the tones but sometimes it's just too noisy for recording it direct. Also I found that tones are better with humbuckers.
 
I don't recall any noticeable noise with the GT2, only with the PSA-1. Also, I've never used a single coil with it. I'm not too sure how that affects the tone.
 
Given your needs (late night recording) a modeler is the way to go. Head down to Guitar Center (or whatever you have close by) and try a few out. Personally, I got a J-Station and I'm very happy.
 
Well I went and bought the J-Station. Should be here by next week. The more I thought about it I would never be able to mic an amp without hearing someone crying or Barney singing in the background. Should do the trick. Thanks for all the input.
 
Until I can afford a rig with three different amps, a combo for clean tones and a ton of effects, the POD is this only way to go.
 
Be careful with being lulled into a POS (I mean POD) with the allure of getting more for the money because you arguably get more different amp tones.

Often, you only need a couple of kick ass tones. It can be more useful to have a few great tones than many substandard tones.

Which is not to say all POD tones suck. It does provide decent tones for the money. However, the focus shoud be on the quality of the tones, not the number of tones.

It is often better to have one great Les Paul/PRS/ESP/Strat than a bunch of Squires/Kramers/LTDs/Epiphones.
 
mojka said:
The more I thought about it I would never be able to mic an amp without hearing someone crying or Barney singing in the background.
Click to expand...


Once my cat made an appearance on a track that was recorded by very-close-micing a Fender Sidekick bass amp on fairly loud. I was amazed since the cat was about 12 feet away behind a closed wooden door, and more or less directly on the [dynamic] mic's rejection axis, and was totally inaudible to me at the time!

I don't have a POD or a J-Station, but I did pick up a Zoom Gm200 VAMS amp modeler on blowout at Daddy's Junky. Not quite as good sounding as the POD, not as many features, you can't edit the emulations, no S/PDIF, etc. but sounds pretty dang good for $50. It has a built-in noise gate which makes life easier on high gain settings. Recorded direct it sounds pretty nice. I haven't tried hooking it up to a combo and micing it yet. My main gripe with it is that you can't turn the bass knob down any farther than it goes ;) -- so when the tone gets too woofy and low I run it through a low-cut EQ to avoid needless DSP.

I'm sure this is very helpful as I now see you bought a J-Station already :) (I should completely read things before responding....)
 
Your guitar will be very important for the quality of tone you get out of a pod or any amp.

I was running an 'ok' Ibanez through a POD and just wasn't impressed. I though the Pod sucked. Then I got a Les Paul and now I love my pod again. I know this is obvious but easily overlooked.
 
I've started using a Boss EQ pedel with my J-Station. I found the 3 ban EQ on the The J-Station just wasn't enough.
 
The J-station should be here by Wednesday. I've read about as many reviews as I can stand! I would like to give a review myself at the end of the week comparing the J-station to plugging my guitar direct into my sound card. I'm hoping it is an improvement.
 
I use POD Pro, and I'm very happy with it. However, I use it primarily as an FX box. I go from there to a Samson Servo 150 power amp, then to a Marshall cab, which I mic. I'm not sure I'm convinced that cab modeling algorithms are as pure cool as an old-fashioned mic'd cab. Sure, if I don't want to wake the dead, or my neighbor's mowing his lawn, it can be OK to just go into the board and monitor with cans. What I really like is to take a digital signal off the POD, an analog to the power amp and mic it into a pre/ A-D convertor, and blend to taste. I also like to run the solid body into the POD to the board, and mic the strings with a coincedent pair of condensers to mix in some genuine pick sound, which gives it that "guitar played by a human" sound quality instead of souless digital output. Just 'cause you use a modeler doesn't mean you cant use mics!- Richie
 
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