Mixing with sub mixes(The Good and Bad)

M

musicaldrops

New member
I'm currently mixing in Sonar 7 Producer,and I just picked up Waves Renaissance Maxx which is great! I'm currently mixing 4 tracks of heavy guitars,and wanted to know if I would be better off adding effects and EQ to the individual tracks or would it be better to make a SUB mix first and then add my effects and what not to the sub mix?? I know your ears are the best way to tell if its going to sound good,but I thought I'd ask the pros!
Thanks
 
musicaldrops said:
I know your ears are the best way to tell if its going to sound good,but I thought I'd ask the pros!
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You already know the answer. No matter how many times you ask the question, the answer's not going to change to an answer you like.

You have to look at both of those options and let your ears decide each one separately. Processing them separately serves the purpose of how to get them to work together as a unit, processing them as a submix serves the purpose of how to get them as a unit to work in the overall mix. Either way, you shouldn't work on them listening to the guitars alone; four guitars as a submix alone is no different than a single guitar soloed; getting it to sound "good" soloed has nothing to do with getting it to sound good in the mix.

Of course if you actually paid the $500 bucks for the bundle, you'd already know all this, because it'd be silly to spend that much money on something you didn't know how to use, right?

G.
 
It all makes a lot of sense! I'll just have to do a little trial and error intill I achieve my desired sound.
Thanks for reminding me how simple it really is!
 
I generally try and do my sub mixes without EQ, however when I mic the amp, I also try and use multiple microphone choices and placement for differenent sounds for example.

MD421, SM57, Royer 121, NT1-a

I'll use the MD421 to grab some nice low end, the sm57 for the mids, the 121 to smooth things out, the NT1-a for the room.

when I mix the tracks together i'll try and determine how much of each "flavor" i need in the sub mix. then generally use "subtractive eq to the get the needed sound.

so if I need more "mids" in the guitar, I'll then take out some lows and highs and up the level.
 
iownrocknroll said:
I generally try and do my sub mixes without EQ, however when I mic the amp, I also try and use multiple microphone choices and placement for differenent sounds for example.
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That's a good point. I'd like to add some suggestions that take it even further; different guitars or at least different pickups and different cabs or at least different cab settings.

Also the arrangement matters. If you're talking about a "4-guitar submix" as a single part quadrupled, how far you want to go with the variance can be more limited (though not necessarily, depending on just what sound you want). If, however, you're talking about four guitars playing four different parts, then you usually want to emphasize the distinction in source sound between them.

G.
 
I personally would eq each track separately, to get them to sound as they should individually and together. I'd also set up a track to be the reverb send, then send as much of each guitar to that track as I wanted.

Finally, I might compress them as a submix, not individually. Or if individually, then apply one last layer of submix compression to glue them together. So in other words, multiple layers of less compression as opposed to a single pass of heavy compression.

Panning those four guitar parts will also be critical.

And as has been mentioned, make sure you mix the guitars in the context of the rest of your arrangement, not only soloed.
 
RAMI said:
Um....yeah, that's the point Steve was trying to make. :rolleyes:
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So do we all have to state up front before asking a question about product 'x' that we are legitimate owners of it before asking anything? It would get a little tedious. We don't ask people if they are legitimate owners of a guitar or a mic or whatever!

I understand the point that's being made though.
 
glynb said:
So do we all have to state up front before asking a question about product 'x' that we are legitimate owners of it before asking anything?
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No, but there are a few common tells. When a guy is asking if his mAudio hardware has a mic preamp in it or not to go with his copy of Nuendo that he already has ($2000 street price) that costs so much because of features only a pro post editor would need, or someone else who asks questions indicating they have no idea whatsoever how to use a compressor says they already have a Waves Diamond bundle ($2850 street price), you know there's something fishy happening. It happens all the time around here.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
No, but there are a few common tells. When a guy is asking if his mAudio hardware has a mic preamp in it or not to go with his copy of Nuendo that he already has ($2000 street price) that costs so much because of features only a pro post editor would need, or someone else who asks questions indicating they have no idea whatsoever how to use a compressor says they already have a Waves Diamond bundle ($2850 street price), you know there's something fishy happening. It happens all the time around here.

G.
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Um....what he said.

I'm 100% sure.
 
Redeem yourself and go buy an affordable software package.

MC Hammer once said......"Too Legit To Quit"
 
Mabye they are rich. Or have a credit card. I hate how everyone here just hums to conclusions. I am only 19, but have spend 10s of thousands of dollars on recording equipment, but I haven't stolen anything. I just have have a few maxed out credit cards and crappy everything else.
 
AMcB said:
Mabye they are rich. Or have a credit card. I hate how everyone here just hums to conclusions. I am only 19, but have spend 10s of thousands of dollars on recording equipment, but I haven't stolen anything. I just have have a few maxed out credit cards and crappy everything else.
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And do you know how to use this equipment?
 
I learned after I bought it. But I am no pro. I agree with what you guys are saying, I'm sure %99 of these people do steal software, but unless they come out and say it, you don't know. Mabye they won the lottery, and bought everything they bought they would need, but didn't have any idea. You just never know.
 
Right. :rolleyes: And, just by co-incidence, these people ALWAYS disappear from the threads they started as soon as the subject of pirating comes up. Pure co-inicidence.
 
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