Mixing tips I have heard, and are they good?

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endserenading81

New member
Just for reference, I do New Wave, Alternative, Punk, Dance type music.

I have read these more than once.

1. Always hear your mix in Mono.
2. Don't put reverb on a whole mix, just separate parts/tracks.
3. Always automate tracks, at least a few.
4. Double record Midi tracks, to make them sound fuller

So first of all, I want to ask what you guys think of these.

And I have a few questions of my own.

Is it bad to use reverb on a lot of tracks? It sounds to me in almost all music produced that there is at least a little reverb on every instrument. Is this done by running them all through one plug-in/ hardware?
Also, does it sound sterile and fake using midi instruments straight in the software? Should it be recorded onto tape?

Through a lot of certain observations, I have found this to be fact: the loudest parts of most pop songs is the snare, the kick, and the vocals .... in that order. Does that sound right? Or, in this %. ...... Snare 100%, Kick 80%, Vocals 75% of level height.

Also, in most pop music, do the vocals always have about 5-6 plugins on it, like exciter, deEsser, compressor, reverb .... or can you get by with just EQ, delay, reverb, and compressor?

The other day I played songs like "Crimson and Clover" by Joan Jett, "Dreaming" by Blondie, and "Dancing With Myself" by Billy Idol. Why do these songs sound so alive, fun, good, on fire ..... when in essence all they are are drums, vocals, guitars, and bass. I know they are good songs in terms of writing .... but I am totally convinced that songs being great have a LOT to do with mixing. Imagine "Dancing with..." as the first demo version, .... yuck.
How do I get just these few instruments to really make a song wild and fun?

Thanks.
Rob
 
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endserenading81 said:
Just for reference, I do New Wave, Alternative, Punk, Dance type music.

I have read these more than once.

1. Always hear your mix in Mono.
2. Don't put reverb on a whole mix, just separate parts/tracks.
3. Always automate tracks, at least a few.
4. Double record Midi tracks, to make them sound fuller

So first of all, I want to ask what you guys think of these.

And I have a few questions of my own.

Is it bad to use reverb on a lot of tracks? It sounds to me in almost all music produced that there is at least a little reverb on every instrument. Is this done by running them all through one plug-in/ hardware?
Also, does it sound sterile and fake using midi instruments straight in the software? Should it be recorded onto tape?

Through a lot of certain observations, I have found this to be fact: the loudest parts of most pop songs is the snare, the kick, and the vocals .... in that order. Does that sound right? Or, in this %. ...... Snare 100%, Kick 80%, Vocals 75% of level height.

Also, in most pop music, do the vocals always have about 5-6 plugins on it, like exciter, deEsser, compressor, reverb .... or can you get by with just EQ, delay, reverb, and compressor?




The other day I played songs like "Crimson and Clover" by Joan Jett, "Dreaming" by Blondie, and "Dancing With Myself" by Billy Idol. Why do these songs sound so alive, fun, good, on fire ..... when in essence all they are are drums, vocals, guitars, and bass. I know they are good songs in terms of writing .... but I am totally convinced that songs being great have a LOT to do with mixing. Imagine "Dancing with..." as the first demo version, .... yuck.
How do I get just these few instruments to really make a song wild and fun?

Thanks.
Rob
Click to expand...

Lots and lots of practice with mixing . The people whoixed those songs have.been doing it so long they just have an experienced ear when it comes to.mixing. nothing is right or wrong, its what's right or wrong for what you want to achieve on your song. I personally usually bury vocals and have too much kick at first in my mixes but after days of remixing ill hear it and fix it. An important thing to remember is listen to great songs on what you are mixing on and get a feel for how it sounds and use that to mix your stuff

And always give your ears a reset every once in a while. Step away for ten minutes and come back and you'll hear things better.

Reverb can be overused and can make a mix sound smeared. But it depends on the sound your going for. I wouldn't use it a lot, just sparingly cause reverb can create the illusion of space. In your face sounds tend to be less reverberated.

Mix drums just till they sound punchy and even . The frequencies used give drums their place in the mix not their volume in a sense.
 
endserenading81 said:
1. Always hear your mix in Mono.
Click to expand...

Correct. That is a good way to check your mix.

endserenading81 said:
2. Don't put reverb on a whole mix, just separate parts/tracks.
Click to expand...

Correct again. Putting reverb on the master bus would make the mix sound mushy and would take away the cleanliness and detail of the recording. It's much better to put reverb on individual tracks, but not necessarily every track needs reverb. One of the biggest mixing mistakes a beginner can make is over-using reverb.

endserenading81 said:
3. Always automate tracks, at least a few.
Click to expand...

This isn't always correct. You should only automate tracks when they need automation. It's possible that an entire song could do without any automation at all, especially if the session was engineered very well.

endserenading81 said:
4. Double record Midi tracks, to make them sound fuller
Click to expand...

Double record? Do you mean like layering the tracks? I'm not sure why someone would do that with MIDI tracks, unless they were layering a different MIDI instrument on top of the first MIDI instrument. Since MIDI tracks are almost always quantized, layering two MIDI tracks of the same sound would only make the first MIDI track sound louder and wouldn't add any depth to the song. Most MIDI instruments already sound pretty "big" and "full" from the start anyways.
 
Well recorded tracks should just about mix themselves. Let the mix guide you where it wants to go. Don't slap some plugins on something because someone else says they always use "......." or ".........". Trust your ears and only use what you need to enhance the sound.
 
endserenading81 said:
1. Always hear your mix in Mono.
Click to expand...

guitarplayr82 said:
Correct. That is a good way to check your mix.
Click to expand...
I still don't understand what good that would do. If you're going to pan things and make it a stereo mix anyway, why would hearing it in mono make a difference ? It's all going to change anyway.
guitarplayr82 said:
MIDI tracks are almost always quantized, layering two MIDI tracks of the same sound would only make the first MIDI track sound louder and wouldn't add any depth to the song. Most MIDI instruments already sound pretty "big" and "full" from the start anyways.
Click to expand...
This can be a weakness in MIDI tracks sometimes. Perfection is overrated.
 
grimtraveller said:
I still don't understand what good that would do. If you're going to pan things and make it a stereo mix anyway, why would hearing it in mono make a difference?
Click to expand...

Some producers use tricks that create exaggerated spaciousness (e.g., "outside the speakers") on some tracks in stereo. But the two signals cancel each other out in mono.
 
Listening to your mix in mono isn't as necessary these days, who the hell listens in mono anymore? folks used to have transistor radois that were mono, but todays listener is likely listening on an iPod or with headphones.

Sometimes using the same reverb on different instruments, or singers, can put them in the same room, so to speak, if they were recorded at different studios, or by different engineers, that can be helpful, but always in moderation.

The last two questions are not something I ever heard of, automate when necessary, not just cause it's cool, and as far as double recording anything, just double buss it if you're looking to fatten it.

Levels are always subjective, I like to have to snare just below the vocal, unless the singer sucks, but the order I use for pop songs is Vocal loudest, then snare, then whatever makes the piece sound best.

This site (MultiTrack Masters Doobie Brothers Long Train Running Torrent Download) has a multitrack master of the Doobies long train runnin', download it, and see how tracks should sound before any processing.

Good luck.
 
Listening in mono can reveal phase issues as well as let you hear level or eq issues that may not be apparent in stereo.
 
grimtraveller said:
I still don't understand what good that would do. If you're going to pan things and make it a stereo mix anyway, why would hearing it in mono make a difference ? It's all going to change anyway.This can be a weakness in MIDI tracks sometimes. Perfection is overrated.
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putting a stereo track into mono while you mix is a great thing to do. as soon as it goes to a mono mix you will hear what isn't sitting right in the mix thus you being able to go back to the stereo and change it.
 
Br3n said:
putting a stereo track into mono while you mix is a great thing to do. as soon as it goes to a mono mix you will hear what isn't sitting right in the mix thus you being able to go back to the stereo and change it.
Click to expand...

This exactly. Also with a lot of dance or house music, The tracks are played in mono through the house P.A. system. It would suck to lose parts of the song when it is played in mono.
 
As a fan of spacious mixing, I like mixing in mono first because if you can get good separation going on there, when you start panning, the elements start opening up even more.
 
most electronica tracks involve layering midi tracks...normally a bass will have three layers, a sub, a main bass and another with some bite, this can go on with leads as well...especially using saw waves...each layer will have slightly different detuning to make a bigger "in your face" sound, these sopunds would generally be bussed together so any compression etc would make it sound more cohesive...kicks and snares can be layered too, but theres no rules, if it sounds good its generally is
 
If it was me I would disregard all the advice and rules, and let my ears be the judge...but hey that's just me.
 
Richie2708 said:
If it was me I would disregard all the advice and rules, and let my ears be the judge...but hey that's just me.
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I know what you mean and I'm in part agreement, but recently, I've been fascinated by just how much ears can change with a little knowledge, a few alternatives and time......
 
grimtraveller said:
I know what you mean and I'm in part agreement, but recently, I've been fascinated by just how much ears can change with a little knowledge, a few alternatives and time......
Click to expand...

This is true I suppose. I stuck my head in rules and tutorials of age old techniques for years, then suddenly my ears just kinda started taking over. I guess they all help you through that learning curve till that point, now my ears tell me whats needed.
 
Richie2708 said:
This is true I suppose. I stuck my head in rules and tutorials of age old techniques for years, then suddenly my ears just kinda started taking over. I guess they all help you through that learning curve till that point, now my ears tell me whats needed.
Click to expand...

This is true of any field of endeavor. You can't hear what you're supposed to be hearing until you know what to listen for.
 
Do yourself a favor and get this video series called "Mixing Rock with Kenny Gioia": Mixing Rock with Kenny Gioia

It is over 6 hours of video instruction on mixing, laid out in very clear, concise and comprehensive fashion. Watching these videos, I guarantee will be an eye opener for you. The use of mono will be explained and demonstrated. There are sections on mixing each element. Vocals, bass, guitars, piano, drums. Proper use of EQ, compression, and reverb are covered. There is a section on delays that is worth the price alone. Over the 6+ hours, you watch Kenny take a mix from start to finish. There is no fat, just lots of meat to sink your teeth into. Best $50 I ever spent to improve my mixing skills. Do it now!
 
The reason you check your mix in mono is basically the same as always, though the details have changed a little. There's always the possibility that your mix will be heard in mono or partially summed. AM radio is mono. FM receivers reduce stereo separation when the signal is weak. MP3 encoding can do all sorts of things to the stereo field depending on the encoder and the options selected. Not checking in mono leaves open the possibility that your mix won't do well in many common modes of listening.
 
most of that advice sounds good... when it comes to automation, it's probably true that you should always do some if you are working with midi. midi stuff can really lack any kind of nuance, and usually sounds not too human. Automation, LOTS OF IT, can give make it sound more human. As for real humans playing... it's already real humans, so there's no need to ad much humanness if these humans are good performers.

as for doubling midi tracks, yeah. it can be really good sometimes to double a midi track with a similar sample, or even a totally different sample. it helps accomplish the same thing as the automation- more complexity and subtlety that is hard to get from a software instrument.

and here's my take on vocals in pop music, and how to make simple stuff sound "wild and fun." you pretty much got it when you said the thing about 5-6 plugins. There's no specific way to do it, you just gotta do a lot of stuff to it. I know there's more to it than that, but basically... the more you double stuff, add delays, exciters, etc, the more life you give to it. The secret I think (even though I'm not great at it myself) is being subtle enough that all these effects just add dimension to the sound, without making it sound too much like the effects do on their own.
 
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