Mixing Out Of The Box

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NewAgeMuttLange

New member
Okay, I've never mixed with anything but the console within my DAW.

But now I'm looking into getting a console to record/mix with, but I don't actually understand the routing for mixing outside the box alongside a DAW. Might someone be able to explain the basics?

Thanks,
Paul
 
First of all what kind of mixer? Are you thinking analog or digital mixer?

You might want to take a look at some of the new firewire digital mixers that look and feel analog. I'm using a Yamaha n12 and am mostly mixing OTB these days and really like it.
 
You need to get an interface with as many outputs as you have tracks to mix. You route the individual tracks in the DAW to the individual outputs on the interface, then connect those outputs to the individual channels on the mixer. Then you connect the main output of the mixer to the stereo input of your interface.

If you are going with a totally out of the box setup, you will need compressors and effects units for each instance.

IMO, unless you get a great mixer, it isn't worth it. Getting something cheap (cheap meaning less than $4000 for a used 24 channel mixer) is just going to add noise and degrade the audio.
 
Farview, I'm actually looking into getting a soundcraft ghost.. I just wanted to know the basics of the routing and if it was worth doing it out of the box or just using a control surface to control the DAW and using rack mount pre's.

Also, considering you are coming back from the interface to the board, would you just use the inserts? send to interface-return to mixer? or would that be a horrible idea considering you'd need the inserts for the rack mount comps, eqs, etc.

(just trying to see if I'd have to unplug all the inputs and re route everything when it's time to mix..)

-Paul
 
The REAL Mutt Lange would know the answer! ...Then again the real Mutt Lange was stupid enough to actually cheat on Shania Twain, so his opinion means little here ;) :D. Just messing wit ya........

Assuming you're talking about an analog console hooked up to a computer running multitrack software (I have to ask because there's so many abuses of the term "DAW" around here that it could mean almost anything), the routing will require enough channels of I/O (A/D and D/A converters) between the two as you desire.

If you wish, just for example, to be able to record 8 simultaneous channels from 8 sources, you will need a minimum of 8 channels of analog-to-digital (A/D) conversion going in to your computer. Additionally you will need an analog mixer with either 8 output busses or 8 input channels that have direct out jacks as well.

You then need to go back out to you miser for your OTB mixing, so you also need as many channels of (D/A) conversion as you have tracks that you want to be able to simultaneously mix.

Additionally, you also need to consider other miscelaneous I/O. If you wish to send a stereo mix to your CR monitors from your computer and not just what's in the analog mixer, then you'll need those two extra channels of D/A out from the computer. If you wish to record submixes out of your mixer as well as direct channels, you'll want to have enough A/D input into your computer to handle the maximum number of combined direct and bus outs from the mixer that you want to be able to simultaneously handle.

I'd also recommend the use of a patch bay between the mixer and your I/O interface so you have the flexibility of routing what you want to use at the time without necessarily having to have enough I/O for everything at once. For example, your mixer may have (just as an example) 12 direct outs, 8 submix buses, and a stereo master bus. this would indicate on the surface that you'd need 22 channels of D/A interface into your computer, and that would be great to have. But you won't always need to be running all possible outputs at one time, so if you can't afford that much, you could have, say, 8, 12 or 16 channels of actual interface into the computer, and use the patch bay to select which mixer outs you need to use at any given time.

HTH,

G.
 
NewAgeMuttLange said:
Farview, I'm actually looking into getting a soundcraft ghost.. I just wanted to know the basics of the routing and if it was worth doing it out of the box or just using a control surface to control the DAW and using rack mount pre's.
Click to expand...
If all you want is to be able to touch faders, get a control surface.

NewAgeMuttLange said:
Also, considering you are coming back from the interface to the board, would you just use the inserts? send to interface-return to mixer? or would that be a horrible idea considering you'd need the inserts for the rack mount comps, eqs, etc.

(just trying to see if I'd have to unplug all the inputs and re route everything when it's time to mix..)

-Paul
Click to expand...
The ghost has tape return inputs, you would hook the DAW outputs to those. These are separate from the line inputs on the channel. You select between the two with a switch on each channel strip.

Use the inserts for the outboard gear.

There are also direct outputs for each channel that double as buss outputs, depending on a switch setting. There is no reason to unpatch and repatch with this mixer.

The thing is, the Ghost is not a good enough board to warrant doing this. I've had a Ghost for 12 years, I used to mix trhough it when I was using tape machines instead of computers. The in-the-box mix beats it, even with the modifications I've done to the board. If you had an SSL, API, Neve, Amek, Midas, etc... then you could argue for doing this, but a Ghost is really one step up from a Mackie 8-buss.

You will also lose your recall and automation for anything that you do outside the box.
 
hmm, i'll probably just go control surface as I doubt I'll be dropping "neve/ssl" kinda money anytime soon.

Thanks for the insight you guys, atleast if I do go out of the box, i'll be able to hook it up.
 
I wouldn't be so discouraging, or immediately poo-poo the idea. There's a lot to be said for using a board that goes beyond sound quality or simple convenience factors.

There's a certain vibe going on when using a desk that some people just "get in to." Just like there's a certain groove going on with a dedicate multitrack recorder versus a computer DAW. I just noticed that people are hard-wired differently. So I'd urge him to go the DAW route ... only if he's a DAW guy. If you're more of a board guy, or a hybrid guy ... then go the board / hybrid route.

It's all about what allows you to get in to your good space. Granted, it's definitely not for me, but I could see where it might be for others. (And there is certainly nothing about the Ghost that will hold someone back if they know what they're doing)
 
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