Mixing only with level and pan

six

New member
Hi all

Has anyone ever made a decent mix by adjusting only levels and panning? No EQ, no compression, not even reverb?

And I'm not talking about a synthesizer-arrangment or such like. ;)

It'd be also quite interesting to hear such a mix (basically the raw recordings arranged in the aural field) compared to the afterwards "seriously" tweaked mix.
 
Does compressing/eq on the way in count?

I don't apply any plugins until I am 95% complete with tracking, editing and "tuning"
 
http://www.massivemastering.com/special/LiveRecording.m3u

(A bunch of snippets of a live recording strung together)

No EQ, no compression - I made the mix using PF aux sends - Adjusting the L/R levels by how much of the opposing aux was allowed in - So technically, I guess we could call that "panning."

Live to two-track, mostly through "garbage" (A&H 2200, stock, 2200 preamps, etc.). All SM57's on guitars, DI's on bass, 504's on toms, M88 kick, 81's OH, 57 hat. The reverb was a 20+ year-old ART ProVerb 200. All going (stereo) into an Apogee MiniMe (at around -30dBFS). Yes, it was "run through the garden" here after for a rather subtle massage and a boost to a reasonable level.

The mix was put together using headphones (during soundcheck, in the room) in around 3 minutes. So yes, the bass is a little light, the hat is a little hot due to how hot it was in the drummer's monitor.

Otherwise, it's a classic example of how a band with great core sounds makes the recording process so simple that you can just take what they give you and run with it.
 
My initial difficulty is that 'decent' is subjective. I have lots of personal stuff (going back decades) 'mixed' for personal review (via cassette, CD4Automobile, hand held flash drive player, etc.) On which nothing was adjusted from original, (if levels are set correctly why would you need to alter level or pan in post?) . . . I started tracking live performance with a mono cassette pretty much as soon as portable boxes were available. As soon as 'tape out' was added to console I used that and as I picked up consoles with additional buses graduated to 2 track recording based primarily on 'house' sound with a mix that compensated for elements not supported adequately in the PA (Bass typically DI'd, etc.). These 'mixes' had mechanical level adjusted in front of tape primarily because that was/is approach used to create the performance sound. I've used mono cassettes, stereo cassettes, stand alone DAW's, hand held flash drive recorders to record performances that used no electric or electronic sound reinforcement, but even here you're still controlling performance via the mechanics (piano damper and sustain pedals for example, mutes on horns) of 'transducers' referred to as 'interments'.

Generally speaking if the budget supports it I tend to track 'dry' and edit in post because that presents the greatest range of options. And a lot of the standard tools can be used subtly to balance harmonize elements of a performance in ways not dissimilar to moving to front of stage, moving to the side of the ensemble. There are times when compression is a subtler and perhaps 'better' approach to balancing level then touching a fader, there are times when time based effects are as reasonable approach to harmonizing voices (instruments, elements) as twisting or sliding an EQ control.

But what constitutes a 'decent' mix is dependent on goals of final distribution. A 'mix' I might create for review by me or band might not be appropriate mix for paid or even gratis distribution to 'audience'. Tracking as neutral, i.e. Dry 'un mixed', as possible permits the greatest number of options on how to deploy the performance. But everything you do, everything you use, certainly the room, impacts, non-linearly, amplitude, frequency, dynamics (ASDR), time of individual waves as well as the 'blend'.

I guess main point is why, except for very specific & limited goals (a la John Cage for example), one would want to impose limits not use dynamic and time based tools? If you simply allow dynamics to be chaotic, pseudo random, then balancing amplitude is going to be that much harder. Humans, biologically use the mix of direct and reverberant sound for 'location' so surrendering control of reverb makes 'panning' far more difficult (to impossible). We speak of 'bass' waves as being less directional then higher frequencies, they're not. They are just as directional as any other pressure wave radiating from it's source. Human perception makes location more difficult because of how the longer wavelengths interact with environment . . . Reducing the reverberant component. Subtly altering the reverberant component can, at times, be as reasonable approach to balancing some frequency (EQ) elements as twisting a knob.

In that sense, so in all those ways, then, no . . . No 'decent' mix without using tools associated with both 'time' (decay) and dynamics (attack) as well as amplitude and frequency.
 
Does compressing/eq on the way in count?

I don't apply any plugins until I am 95% complete with tracking, editing and "tuning"

It's less about what 'counts'... ;)
But if you say you only apply plugins towards the very end then a comparison of your pre-plugin- and final mixes might be interesting.


I like the sound. And yes, the hats are a bit dominant.

My initial difficulty is that 'decent' is subjective.[...] No 'decent' mix without using tools associated with both 'time' (decay) and dynamics (attack) as well as amplitude and frequency.

With decent I meant it's no pain listening to it (yeah, a bit subjective again). But reconsidering it, I think we can forget about the quality. My main goal was to get some examples of what the effects do to the record, resp. what has already been achieved at the recording stage and what has been done at mixing.
 
My main goal was to get some examples of what the effects do to the record, resp. what has already been achieved at the recording stage and what has been done at mixing.
That is going to depend entirely upon what has been achieved in the recording stage on one hand, and in how much of a role post-production will play as an "instrument" in itself in the production.

As for the recording stage, typically the better the tracking, the less one should have to process it in mixing. With high-quality tracking you'll hear less of a difference - i.e. the more the mix will actually be little more than setting panning and relative levels. If it's a poor-quality job of tracking, the more the mix engineer will be forced to try and force-fit a mix by throwing heavy processing at the tracks.

Unless of course the producer/engineer had major plans for being the "fifth man" (think George Martin as the fifth Beatle as one way-overused example, but Alan Parsons or Brian Eno might be better examples), where half of the sound of the final product comes from the studio tricks applied.

The question is (IMHO) not so much what does processing during mixing do, that's looking at things backwards; but rather what sound one wants. Only when you have an idea in mind *beforehand* for what kind of sound you want can you decide how much or how little of what kind of processing the mix will need.

G.
 
I absolutely agree to what you wrote. And that's exaclty the thing I would love to HEAR in the form of audio examples.
The assumption there is that folks don't set compression, EQ or reverb on any part of their mix until after they set pan and level, and that they mix down and keep panned and leveled but non-processed rough mixes at that point. Both of those would be very uncommon for most mix engineer work flows.

Even if they did, I don't understand the point. I'm not saying anything is wrong, I just don't get a) why anybody would mix or save a mix like that, and 2) even if they did, what the point if hearing the difference would be. While we're waiting for such mixes to show up, could you explain this for stupid ol' me?

G.
 
The assumption there is that folks don't set compression, EQ or reverb on any part of their mix until after they set pan and level, and that they mix down and keep panned and leveled but non-processed rough mixes at that point. Both of those would be very uncommon for most mix engineer work flows.

Even if they did, I don't understand the point. I'm not saying anything is wrong, I just don't get a) why anybody would mix or save a mix like that, and 2) even if they did, what the point if hearing the difference would be. While we're waiting for such mixes to show up, could you explain this for stupid ol' me?

G.

It sure has to do with the individual work flow. I assume that most homerecorders are one-man-shows and therefore track each source after another, and I assume that after every single track, they roughly "set it in place", i.e. roughly pan and adjust levels.
So by the time you tracked your last source, you've got a first basic picture of how it sounds.
And then the "real" mixing starts.

Thinking about the point in hearing the differences, I realize that it might be more interesting to hear the single tracks - unprocessed, compared to the finished & polished mix. So you hear that fine solo-guitar in the mix, and then you here the raw recording of it and either you think "wow, this dude sure knows how to track a guitar" or "wow, he must be a genius to get this out of such an awful source."
I think it'd show at least me what works and what doesn't, what can be achieved in the tracking stage and what is truely reserved to the mixing stage.

A guy like you has probably seen and heared hundreds of recording and mixing engineers and knows these things. But I don't, and maybe I'm not the only one.
 
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