Mixing my toms: gate? manual edit?...?

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Drumz519

New member
So, I'm back home from college for the summer and I've got my kit setup and mic'd for some serious recording in my basement space. I'm very happy with the sound of things so far but I have a question about my toms.

When I'm not playing the toms, there is a sympathetic resonance that they pic up from the rest of the kit and it comes through on the mix. Now, I've heard that this can bring more character to the kit but it's not helping in this case; it's just a constant drone. Now, I've experimented with gating them (though I'm a noob to gates/expanders) and it works well until the gate kicks in after a tom fill and there's a sudden emptyness where the toms were. I've also tried cutting up the tracks so I pull out sections when the toms aren't being played. This has worked better but I still think there has to be a better answer out there that I've yet to come across. Maybe light muffling?

Here are some basic stats of what I'm working with:
Remo Pintripe heads without muffling
SM57 mic on each tom (45 degree angle, 1-2" above the head, aimed towards center)
Pro Tools M-Powered 7.1 recording software with stock plugins

Thanks for any help!
 
Manual edits work best for me. A major PITA, but ultimately it saves time over fiddling with expanders/gates repeatedly during mixing.
 
Drumz519 said:
Now, I've experimented with gating them (though I'm a noob to gates/expanders) and it works well until the gate kicks in after a tom fill and there's a sudden emptyness where the toms were.
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Then your tom tracks are too loud in relation to the overheads. You need to find the right mix.
 
Massive Master said:
Retuning or light muffling is my first line of defense. The "flapper" is always a nice thing...
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Can you describe this "flapper" consept for me? I've heard of some people putting cotton balls in their toms (especially the floor tom) as kind of an acoustic gate. Maybe I'll have that a shot.

I have my overheads positions about 2 feet over the highest cymbals and located midway over the kit. I'm not aiming to pick up a whole lot of room sound (I'm recording in an untreated finished basement). Should I be trying something different?

Thanks!
 
Drumz519 said:
Can you describe this "flapper" consept for me?
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Simply put, a "flapper" is a flap of cloth that sits on the head. It'd be attached on an edge (of the cloth). When the drum is hit, the flap rises up to let the tone through. After the hit, the flap lowers back on to the head to squelch the sympathetic or extended vibration.
 
From what you describe, there are a couple issues.

1. The toms ring too much. That's because you have tuned them to do that. Tune them so they don't ring. (or use moongels or the flapper)

2. You aren't hitting the toms very hard. This makes you turn the tom mics up so high that they pick up the normal vibration of the toms and makes cymbal bleed a problem.

3. The cymbals are too low, causing a bleed problem.

Most likely, it's a combination of those.

I never have a problem with bleed or ringing when the drummer is a relatively heavy hitter. This doesn't mean you have to beat the crap out of the drums, you just have to 'mix the kit' as you play it.

Beating the crap out of your hi hat and lightly tapping on the snare (for example) will lead to a problem with the hat bleeding into the snare mic. It's not a mic placement problem, it's a dynamics problem. The drummer is screwing the pooch by not making the snare louder than the hat as he is playing it.
 
Farview said:
From what you describe, there are a couple issues.

1. The toms ring too much. That's because you have tuned them to do that. Tune them so they don't ring. (or use moongels or the flapper)

2. You aren't hitting the toms very hard. This makes you turn the tom mics up so high that they pick up the normal vibration of the toms and makes cymbal bleed a problem.

3. The cymbals are too low, causing a bleed problem.

Most likely, it's a combination of those.

I never have a problem with bleed or ringing when the drummer is a relatively heavy hitter. This doesn't mean you have to beat the crap out of the drums, you just have to 'mix the kit' as you play it.

Beating the crap out of your hi hat and lightly tapping on the snare (for example) will lead to a problem with the hat bleeding into the snare mic. It's not a mic placement problem, it's a dynamics problem. The drummer is screwing the pooch by not making the snare louder than the hat as he is playing it.
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Finalist: 2007's Best Post of the Year.

G.
 
re-read farview's post.

my only addition to that is: watch your decay time on your gates. be liberal.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm considering a few options though I tride adhering a small cymbal felt to each tom and I'm getting the perfect sound out of each one. I wil certainly be looking into the Moon Gel though.
 
I think tuning is one of the biggest key points when it comes to toms. If they aren't in tune for recording, they shouldn't be used for recording. I think toms require the most skill in the tracking/mixing stages of the production due to problems like what you are experiencing. Think of it this way. A guitarist shows up to record or even play a gig. He will NEVER grab the guitar out of its case and start the show. He will ALWAYS check the tuning before playing. Then he will make sure the amp sounds good for the venue and again adjust accordingly. Drums shouldn't be any different!
 
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