mixing levels

[Opivy]

So, been searching and can't quite find exactly the answer i'm looking for - Although I've found and bookmarked many threads that are a little over my head for right now.

One of my friends told me, that the main output fader should never be put above 0db. The only reason I can think of is because it might clip, but if my other tracks are turned low enough - it shouldn't matter. should it?

Anyways, if this is true - how about the faders for my other tracks. Should they always be kept below 0db too? Because so far it seems I always have to put them above the line (there's a little line at the 0db mark) to get them loud enough to be audible over drums/guitar and what not.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Fader settings are not the same as signal levels. You master bus meter should never exceed 0dBFS. Anything below that is workable. I generally aim for mix levels around -12dBFS peak and end up around -9dBFS. Fader settings are somewhat irrelevant as long as the result is a good level.

Remember, you can turn the loud stuff down instead of turning the quiet things up.

 

[ALS]

Fader settings are not the same as signal levels. You master bus meter should never exceed 0dBFS. Anything below that is workable. I generally aim for mix levels around -12dBFS peak. Fader settings are somewhat irrelevant as long as the result is a good level.

Remember, you can turn the loud stuff down instead of turning the quiet things up.

I aim for around -12dBFS as well.

As for the fader positions on individual tracks, put them where everything sounds good.

For your audibility problem and turning everything up try turning the louder things down and if that doesn't work you're screwed just kidding. If that doesn't work, it maybe because everything is clashing and fighting for the same position try panning things out to place them in there own spot as well as some EQ to define them even further so that a certain frequency range is not being slammed with so many sounds. Now get out there and have some fun.

 

[Opivy]

thanks guys =) Been having fun -

Been playing with EQ and compressors a lot the past few weeks, but it takes some real radical changes to make any sort of difference. (Also, my microphone barely picks up any signal... old cheap dynamic mic that was kept in the garage for 10 years plus)

It probably has something to do with computer speakers in a large room - yes?

hehe, I feel like I'm learning every day.

 

[Kingofpain678]

thanks guys =) Been having fun -

Been playing with EQ and compressors a lot the past few weeks, but it takes some real radical changes to make any sort of difference. (Also, my microphone barely picks up any signal... old cheap dynamic mic that was kept in the garage for 10 years plus)

It probably has something to do with computer speakers in a large room - yes?

hehe, I feel like I'm learning every day.

And you've got a long way to go my friend... I've been learning this stuff for probably a year now and I'm still learning new stuff everyday...

I know I didn't offer any advice but I still wish you the best of luck! Use this place to it's fullest potential... We can teach you alot

 

[gecko zzed]

So, been searching and can't quite find exactly the answer i'm looking for - Although I've found and bookmarked many threads that are a little over my head for right now.

One of my friends told me, that the main output fader should never be put above 0db. The only reason I can think of is because it might clip, but if my other tracks are turned low enough - it shouldn't matter. should it?

Anyways, if this is true - how about the faders for my other tracks. Should they always be kept below 0db too? Because so far it seems I always have to put them above the line (there's a little line at the 0db mark) to get them loud enough to be audible over drums/guitar and what not.

I think the others have all said it pretty well, but to summarise:

It doesn't really matter where your track or master faders are, so long as the signal isn't clipping.

However, to reduce the number of variables you have to deal with, it's usually best to leave the master fader at 0 and work with the track faders.

 

[Dogbreath]

Maybe I'm talkin out me arse here ( maybe )

But with regards to the faders and unity, it seems to me that your AD/DA converters are gonna come into play, right? I mean, there's a point where you're gonna be pushin the converters past their optimum and ya get into shat.

Seems to me that you'd be better off if, when tracking...set all your faders at unity (that red line you were talkin about) and leave em. Use your trim to set your input levels to where your track is an average of -12 and just let er rip.

That gives some room for EQ and effects, some decent wiggle room for volume automation and the rest of the mix stuff without munchin up the headroom or pushin the converters too hard and makes it (for me at least) easier to mix.

my thoughts anyway....

 

[Dogbreath]

Oh yeah...and when your set the faders during mixdown, just bring the tracks that are too loud...down.
I've had mixes that came in averaging at -20 but the mix was good. I just turn up my monitors.
The loudness of the mix itself comes later during final mix and master (and I'm still workin on that. )

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Maybe I'm talkin out me arse here ( maybe )

But with regards to the faders and unity, it seems to me that your AD/DA converters are gonna come into play, right? I mean, there's a point where you're gonna be pushin the converters past their optimum and ya get into shat.

The faders in any DAW I've used only apply a non-destructive effect to the file after it's been digitized.

 

[Dogbreath]

The faders in any DAW I've used only apply a non-destructive effect to the file after it's been digitized.

so ya can't push a converter into distorting?

I always thought ya could. That there was a "comfortable" range for the A to D when tracking and the D to A when mixing and that pushing the converters too hard was putting you into clipping.

 

[Farview]

so ya can't push a converter into distorting?

Yes you can. But that isn't a function of fader level, it is a fuction of signal level. If you have a signal that peaks at -20dbfs and you push the fader up 10db, you will still only be peaking at -10dbfs. It won't clip.

I always thought ya could. That there was a "comfortable" range for the A to D when tracking and the D to A when mixing and that pushing the converters too hard was putting you into clipping.

The analog chain on the way to the AD is what has a comfortable range. The actual converter really doesn't care. However, the interface it is in might...

 

[Dogbreath]

ahh...cool.
Well explained and makes sense.

Thanks much.

 

[gecko zzed]

Seems to me that you'd be better off if, when tracking...set all your faders at unity (that red line you were talkin about) and leave em. Use your trim to set your input levels to where your track is an average of -12 and just let er rip.

I was under the impression that the OP was talking about mixing, rather than tracking, levels.

 

[Dogbreath]

I was under the impression that the OP was talking about mixing, rather than tracking, levels.

Yer right....and that's what I got too....

Just figgered I'd throw that in there cuz some of the mixing headaches can be taken care of by better tracking techniques.

In fact, I learned that right here.

 

[suprstar]

I do what Dog does - track to about -15 to -12 (dbFS). Then the master comes in right around 0 on a standard 16-ish track proj.. If you have like 24+ tracks you'd have to track a little lower, like -18 to -15. If you only have 4 you might wanna go a bit higher like -12 to -9. It's the SUM of all tracks you want to eventually end up around zero.

Plus I do think AD converters are designed to be optimal right around that range, and yes you CAN definitely clip - at anything higher than zero. But if you're really shooting for -15, you won't touch 0 too often

...cuz some of the mixing headaches can be taken care of by better tracking techniques...

Hey youre pretty smart for a dog. WOOOF!

 

[Troy6120]

Don't settle for a possibly screwed-up mic.

 

[moresound]

thanks guys =) Been having fun -

Been playing with EQ and compressors a lot the past few weeks, but it takes some real radical changes to make any sort of difference. (Also, my microphone barely picks up any signal... old cheap dynamic mic that was kept in the garage for 10 years plus)

It probably has something to do with computer speakers in a large room - yes?

hehe, I feel like I'm learning every day.

Yes Opivy....you are going to have to start to purchases a handful of microphones that will properly suit your recording needs and habits.
As well as a set or nice studio monitors for mixing. .. (()) ..

 

[Opivy]

plan to =) been finding some nice deals on craigslist

Just need to wait until I get paid in about a month =(.

Anyways, any cubase users on here?

I'm having trouble figuring out at what my signal is peaking at-

I bring up my mixer, and can see the bar moving up and down, and it's showing me a number underneath it - but the number doesn't want to change unless I click on it. (kinda resets it or something)

Like if it goes red saying "CLIP", it will continue to say that until I click on it. As if I'm turning it off

 

[moresound]

plan to =) been finding some nice deals on craigslist

Just need to wait until I get paid in about a month =(.

Anyways, any cubase users on here?

I'm having trouble figuring out at what my signal is peaking at-

I bring up my mixer, and can see the bar moving up and down, and it's showing me a number underneath it - but the number doesn't want to change unless I click on it. (kinda resets it or something)

Like if it goes red saying "CLIP", it will continue to say that until I click on it. As if I'm turning it off

It's in the settings.
You can set it to stay on for 3 secs. ,5 secs. , or always on once you hit it.....I like the 3 sec. feature. lets me know that I've hit it then it resets as I make adjustments.

 

[Opivy]

Yea, it seems useful for the clip signal - but for the numbers?

It's impossible to tell where they're going!

Please tell me I can turn that off too.

Also - another complete noob question, but is this a good way to tell where my signal is peaking during tracking? (with the mixer in cubase)

as I have a terrible Mic - I've just been turning my gain dial on my fasttrack pro all the way up, and - well at least my fast track doesn't tell me I'm clipping, but cubase sure likes to tell me I am when I listen back to it.