Mixing Hooks

S

SoundScheme

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Ok , so I cant seem to ever get my hooks to sit just RIGHT. They never seem wide enough or big enough to distinctly seperate them from the verses. I've been playing with reverb and delay for the past few months, is there any advice on how to make hooks big that anyone can impart on me. It would be greatly appreciated.
 
First off...your use of the work "hooks" doesn't seem to be right in the context of the rest of your post.

What do you mean "wide enough or big enough to distinctly separate them from the verses"...?
Separate what from the verses....are you talking about the chorus when you say "hook"...?

Is this about songwriting/arrangement....or FX/processing....???
 
I'm usually working with acoustic singer/songwriters but for me much of it falls on how well the song was written and performed.

Beyond that it's mostly about what instruments are in the mix. I don't really rely on tricks or techniques, mix wise.
I'll just introduce a piano counter melody, choral oohs and ahhs...whatever fits the song.
 
Steenamaroo said:
for me much of it falls on how well the song was written and performed.

Beyond that it's mostly about what instruments are in the mix.
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I think there are various little tricks that engineers can use to slightly elevate a chorus like making it fractionally but subliminally louder, but ultimately, I think Steenamaroo's statement says it all. Much of the the impact of the hook will be determined by the arrangement and performance {for example, introducing it with a funky drum fill that screams "SOMETHING IS COMING, FOLKS !!"}.
 
I'd say 90% of that is in the writing and arranging. Yes, there are probably little subtle "tricks" that mixing engineers might use to bring the chorus more into prominence, but a song shouldn't NEED those things to make a chorus stand out.
 
One of the most commen elements of a chorus that makes it stand out is that the melody line will go up higher somewhat than what it was in the verses. This can be verified in like 90% of every song that was ever any kind of hit with the public.
 
miroslav said:
One of the most commen elements of a chorus that makes it stand out is that the melody line will go up higher somewhat than what it was in the verses. This can be verified in like 90% of every song that was ever any kind of hit with the public.
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I think some great songs don't follow that also. Off the top of my head "Girl" by the Beatles doesn't. Neither does ""I'm Only Sleeping" by the Beatles. I happen to be listening to the Beatles right now, so that's why it's all I can come up with. I'm sure there are others.

Then again, some of the biggest hits in history don't even have a chorus, like "Yesterday" by the.....um.....Beatles. :D
 
It's a million tiny things to get a hook to jump out. Think along the lines of Big vs. Small and Close vs. Far.
Typically, verses will be a bit smaller, narrower, darker, and closer to the listener. The choruses opens up wider, brighter, and puts a bit of space between the listener and the tracks. Not 100% of the time, of course, but usually.


Think less that you want your hooks big. Think more that you want your verses smaller.




SoundScheme said:
Ok , so I cant seem to ever get my hooks to sit just RIGHT. They never seem wide enough or big enough to distinctly seperate them from the verses. I've been playing with reverb and delay for the past few months, is there any advice on how to make hooks big that anyone can impart on me. It would be greatly appreciated.
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RAMI said:
I think some great songs don't follow that also. Off the top of my head "Girl" by the Beatles doesn't. Neither does ""I'm Only Sleeping" by the Beatles. I happen to be listening to the Beatles right now, so that's why it's all I can come up with. I'm sure there are others.

Then again, some of the biggest hits in history don't even have a chorus, like "Yesterday" by the.....um.....Beatles. :D
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Well...if there's no chorus, that's a different thing.

What I said (and this is something that come out of some study, if recall) is that if you look at songs that were major hits, not just any/every song ("Girl and "I'm Only Sleeping" weren't really major hits)...if they have a chorus, the majority will have a melody line that rises in pitch for the chorus.

This is not an absolute requirement to have a song be a hit....it's just happens to work out that way most times, and that's usually the point of most choruses, to "lift" the feeling of the song up.
 
miroslav said:
Well...if there's no chorus, that's a different thing.

What I said (and this is something that come out of some study, if recall) is that if you look at songs that were major hits, not just any/every song ("Girl and "I'm Only Sleeping" weren't really major hits)...if they have a chorus, the majority will have a melody line that rises in pitch for the chorus.

This is not an absolute requirement to have a song be a hit....it's just happens to work out that way most times, and that's usually the point of most choruses, to "lift" the feeling of the song up.
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I know, and I wasn't trying to start an 18 page argument with you where we nit-pick or every minor detail of what each other says just for the sake of showing off our debating skills. I just said that many great songs don't follow that formula.
 
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Totally song dependent, but your using of the term 'hook', leads me to think of hip hop type genre. Try single vocal track on verses. For the chorus (hook), try tracking 3 vocals. Main one centered, and the other two paned hard left and right.

Jus sain. :)
 
Jimmy's comment brings up a point - the genre. A lot of new 'indie' music uses the same repeating chord pattern throughout the verses and chorus (sometimes there is a differing bridge pattern). For that type of music, something to set the chorus apart from the verse is needed. This can be louder volume, a higher pitch, harmonies, or added instruments. All 4 of these technniques can also be used for choruses that have different chord patterns, of course.
Ulitmately, its what fits the song.
 
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